Stock vs. N1TC Needle
#1
10-26-2006, 05:32 AM
Stock vs. N1TC Needle
I'm thinking out load...
I've got 7000miles on the bike, so I thought I would try the N1TC needle and 125@2 combo. Not impressed, the 3-4k rpm(traffic speed) is not smooth, and 8-9k 1/2 to 3/4 throttle with little load(third gear)is surge city, a nasty lean condition. At any time I crank the throttle, BAM, great response. So I went to slot #3, got a little better, not much.
My set up: Sea level
K&N
drilled slide #30
hi-flow snorkle
Muzzy Q/S
14/48 gears
More babble...
Before I broke my hand I was getting 50mpg with the stock needle 128 jet w/.035 washer. I put the Muzzy and K&N on while I wasn't supposed to be riding. Now I was getting 60mpg, but I was barley noticing a lean surge @ 7-8k(i'm just sensitive), I was happy. So I put the N1TC in today. GRRRRRRRRRRR.
Did some research, and this is what I've learned. 250 and 300 carbs are different, the N1TC needle is 1/4 shorter than stock, but have similar tappers and is for the 300 carb. The 94-96 KLX250R has an N1SA needle that is adjustable like the 300 needle( might try in the future). Any way I'm going back to 128/stock needle/and am using the N1TC collar to raise the stock needle .050in, and that should get rid of my faint lean condition.
Comments are welcome...Are you completely happy with the N1TC on the street?
I've got 7000miles on the bike, so I thought I would try the N1TC needle and 125@2 combo. Not impressed, the 3-4k rpm(traffic speed) is not smooth, and 8-9k 1/2 to 3/4 throttle with little load(third gear)is surge city, a nasty lean condition. At any time I crank the throttle, BAM, great response. So I went to slot #3, got a little better, not much.
My set up: Sea level
K&N
drilled slide #30
hi-flow snorkle
Muzzy Q/S
14/48 gears
More babble...
Before I broke my hand I was getting 50mpg with the stock needle 128 jet w/.035 washer. I put the Muzzy and K&N on while I wasn't supposed to be riding. Now I was getting 60mpg, but I was barley noticing a lean surge @ 7-8k(i'm just sensitive), I was happy. So I put the N1TC in today. GRRRRRRRRRRR.
Did some research, and this is what I've learned. 250 and 300 carbs are different, the N1TC needle is 1/4 shorter than stock, but have similar tappers and is for the 300 carb. The 94-96 KLX250R has an N1SA needle that is adjustable like the 300 needle( might try in the future). Any way I'm going back to 128/stock needle/and am using the N1TC collar to raise the stock needle .050in, and that should get rid of my faint lean condition.
Comments are welcome...Are you completely happy with the N1TC on the street?
#2
10-26-2006, 07:25 AM
RE: Stock vs. N1TC Needle
Mine is working perfect for me. #125 main, stock pilot, drilled slide, N1TC second slot, Muzzy Q/S, no smog stuff, KDX hi flow snorkle, fuel screw is at 2.5 turns out. I'm at 2000ft. I get a little popping on hard decelleration. I have 3,600 miles on mine. 7000, I'm impressed, thats alot of riding.
#3
10-26-2006, 04:57 PM
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: Stock vs. N1TC Needle
the carbs are identical, whatever you read was mistaken. this carb has been around for over a decade. the stock needle is junk. the N1TC is adjustable, so why would you use the stock non-adjustable needle and use a washer to adjust it? the needles however are different but the carbs are identical on both bikes. if you're lean, I would install a larger main jet like a 128 which is what I use with a BigGun system, carb mods, and Uni-filter- or even a 130 to get more fuel, and put the N1TC in the 2nd slot. what do you mean by drilled slide #30? 7/64ths is what you need to drill the slide hole to, any larger and it will make the slide slow on the return so some say. also, not sure what you mean by a surge? do you mean a bog? to me a surge is good because it is a sudden surge of power. what is your definition?
#4
10-26-2006, 05:37 PM
RE: Stock vs. N1TC Needle
I'm at 600ft elevation, have hi-flow snork, Muzzy quiet core, drilled vent, 125 main, stock pilot with 2.5 on mix screw, and N1TC set to 2nd position. I could not be more thrilled with the combo. It starts and warms fast, never stumbles, pulls strong all the way to readline and has no lean surge.
#8
10-26-2006, 08:06 PM
RE: Stock vs. N1TC Needle
ORIGINAL: Iowaguy
the carbs are identical, whatever you read was mistaken. this carb has been around for over a decade. the stock needle is junk. the N1TC is adjustable, so why would you use the stock non-adjustable needle and use a washer to adjust it? the needles however are different but the carbs are identical on both bikes. if you're lean, I would install a larger main jet like a 128 which is what I use with a BigGun system, carb mods, and Uni-filter- or even a 130 to get more fuel, and put the N1TC in the 2nd slot. what do you mean by drilled slide #30? 7/64ths is what you need to drill the slide hole to, any larger and it will make the slide slow on the return so some say. also, not sure what you mean by a surge? do you mean a bog? to me a surge is good because it is a sudden surge of power. what is your definition?
the carbs are identical, whatever you read was mistaken. this carb has been around for over a decade. the stock needle is junk. the N1TC is adjustable, so why would you use the stock non-adjustable needle and use a washer to adjust it? the needles however are different but the carbs are identical on both bikes. if you're lean, I would install a larger main jet like a 128 which is what I use with a BigGun system, carb mods, and Uni-filter- or even a 130 to get more fuel, and put the N1TC in the 2nd slot. what do you mean by drilled slide #30? 7/64ths is what you need to drill the slide hole to, any larger and it will make the slide slow on the return so some say. also, not sure what you mean by a surge? do you mean a bog? to me a surge is good because it is a sudden surge of power. what is your definition?
now the 300...
.....couldn't get the images to stick, try the link.......
On the left side of the 300 there is an 'Air Cut Valve'. What it does. I don't know. But it makes it different to me.
SURGE: lean condition, bike jerks from starving in the higher rpms
BOG: rich, too fat, throttle goes flat at mid rpms
What I'm getting at with the needles is that they have different flow curves. The stock has a long smooth power curve, where as the N1TC has more like an 'on/off' feel to it. I know the 125 jet I put in yesterday was giving plenty of fuel because the top end ran great. It was the intermediate areas that where so troublesome. I ran up the tach and gears slowly all the way to redline, and the bike would get a mean surge @ 7500-9000 and barley run. Now twist the throttle from 1/2 to full it takes off like a rocket. That ain't right...
The stock needle has been great for me, yes it would be nice if it were adjustable. After I put the 128 back in I will compare the two again('cause thats easier than changing the jet). I still would like to compair the 250Rand stock needle side by side(with calipers).
#9
10-27-2006, 01:22 AM
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: Stock vs. N1TC Needle
I think you would be best suited to throw away the stock needle. Putting in the 250R needle is nuts to me since it's over a decade old and the N1TC needle is the bomb, they don't charge $18 for it because it's junk. They know people want it. Put it back in, install a 128 main. Put the needle on the 2nd slot from top. Also, with a KN filter and hi-flow snorkel you may need an even larger main jet since it is getting tons of air, and having such a small main jet isn't giving it enough fuel evidently for low/mid acceleration. Maybe the reason your top end is okay is because it's taking such a long time to get the fuel in the carb and by the time you've accelerated to higher rpms it is just then getting the fuel to stretch it's legs. I don't know, i'm just guessing here. But I would definitely keep with the N1TC, going backwards on this bike is to me the wrong thing to do. Also, with that many miles have you checked your valve clearances? Just a thought.
#10
10-27-2006, 01:25 AM
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: Stock vs. N1TC Needle
The stock needle has been great for me, yes it would be nice if it were adjustable. After I put the 128 back in I will compare the two again('cause thats easier than changing the jet). I still would like to compair the 250Rand stock needle side by side(with calipers).
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what do you mean by this statement? the 128 IS a main jet. Are you talking about the needle? Keeping the N1TC is the thing to do also because you can keep toying with it since it's easy to get to and it's easily adjustable. But start off with a 128 main since it's a pretty versatile size. good luck.
[/quote]
what do you mean by this statement? the 128 IS a main jet. Are you talking about the needle? Keeping the N1TC is the thing to do also because you can keep toying with it since it's easy to get to and it's easily adjustable. But start off with a 128 main since it's a pretty versatile size. good luck.