RE: The post to end all hard start posts
 

This procedure works, but I am not convinced that it is for the reasons stated and the results of the fixdo NOT conclusively prove that 'bad' gas is the problem. I have had this problem summer or winter, STABIL or no STABIL. No other bike of mine has ever had a problem. Gas just does NOT go bad that fast. Now hear me out, lets makea fewassumptions and leave bad gas out of the equation and see if it explains what we are seeing:

1. The petcock actually DOES shut off the gas. No leaky.
2. The float needle does NOT do a good job of shutting off the gas, leaky....bowl floods.

So here is another explanation, more believable IMHO, of what is happening:

1. If you just shut off the gas or if you don't, over the next day or two the feul in the line under the petcock leaks into the bowl, flooding it. Draining the bowl then helps it start.

2. If you shut off the petcock and run the gas out of the bowl, you will have a dry bowl ready for your next start attempt. 10 seconds and a few cranks and she runs.

3. If you shut off the petcock and drain the bowl, you will have a dry or partially filled bowl (from the feul in the line leaking in over a couple days). 10 seconds, a few cranks, and she runs.

We may be able to test this theory by draining the bowl but leaving the petcock on for a week or so. If the problem persists, then it is probably the float check valve needle thingy that is the problem.

In ANY CASE, for now the solution remains the same......

P.S. Higher octane gas burns slower andprovides less power. Always runthe LOWEST octane that you can without detonation (pinging). So why do race cars or my V-Rod or past race carsrequire higher octane? It's because the higher compression ratio and piston/chamber designwill ping at lower octanes. So why have a higher compression ratio? Because the power gained by higher compression is a higher gain than the power lost by using a higher octanegasoline....a worthy tradeoff. So use 87 in your KLX if it has the stock piston, since that is what the manual calls for. Hope this helps.

RE: The post to end all hard start posts
 

Crap I had this long post about why the way I am doing it works every time and if not done it never starts the bike, and I pushed the backspace button and lost everything. I give up:(

RE: The post to end all hard start posts
 

Well weather its bad gas or cold temps it doesn't matter, what matters is that I have the luxury of three bikes to try my theory on and after several tests on all three bikes using the gas on or gas off, bowl empty or bowl full, it just made me believe my theory even more. Here it is in a nut shell.

This is what I found on the 225 bikes, and to a certain extent on the KLX 250 as well.

Gas off--bowl dry = bike starts no matter how long it sits.

Gas off but bowl not empty = bike won't start

Gas on and bowl not dry = good luck cause it ain't starting and you are going to pull your hair out trying to figure it out.

RE: The post to end all hard start posts
 

Not unless you want a pool of gas on the ground or floor. This is not a vacuum operated petcock.

You will notbe testingthe "float check valve thingy" unless you stuff something in the bowl to hold the float up, thus holding the 'needle' against the 'seat.'

RE: The post to end all hard start posts
 

I too am hard headed and didn't want to accept some of the obvious, or simple explanations for what could possibly be going on with my KLX. But, everything that I have done points to the fact that the gas goes bad in the carb bowl. I have pull started the klx and it doesn't start untill that original gas in the carb has been "burned" out. I have used starting fluid and it won't run on its own untill that bad gas is gone. Or I can drain the bowl and replace the gas and it starts. Its hard to make sense of it but even I have trouble argueing with what works.
Now, why is it that with my three other bikes and the 2 pilots this doesn't happen?
Gee Tennessee I don't know. Maybe if we had Mr. Woopee here with the 3DDB he could explain it. (Those of you under 40 won't understand that last comment)
But anyway, on this one issue, I guess I don't need to know WHY, I just need to know HOW. And now that I know that, my life will be easier.

Stay tuned for my gloating in late January when I'm fininshed with the complete suspension overhaul and the new pumper carb.

EVERYONE!!!! HAVE A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A PROSPEROUS NEW YEAR!!!!

RE: The post to end all hard start posts
 

Tremor, if your carb is drolling fuel with the petcock open i would check the float level adjustment or the condition of the needle and seat. It really should'nt loose fuel out the overflow unless one of those are the culprit. Just a thought and a voice from past experience.

RE: The post to end all hard start posts
 

DUH !!! Ya got me Tremor, what was I thinking ? If you leave the petcock open the bowl will fill every time. My test case is therefore invalid. I will blame themix of eggnog and Kalua dip in mybrain for that one. I repeat...DUH !!!

I still stick by my theory that it is flooding if you don't drain the bowl (which empties the line under the petcock also as Tremor points out) or run the gas out. It's not bad gas or all our bikes and mowers would have the same problem. Especially sincemany of ususe Stabil through these winter months and I know I have been doing so for at least 25 years. My el cheapo 2 stroke trimmers and blowers, let alone mowers, start easily every spring, as have all the classic cars and bikes I have owned over the years. This is a mechanical problem and may have a solution (stronger spring?) Does anyone remember how wimpy that spring was when they had their bowl off? I do, and it almost felt like it was doing nothing.

MERRY CHRISTMAS !!!

RE: The post to end all hard start posts
 

So our bikes are designed to flood? I don't think so. I've had lots of bikes in the past and I never turned off the gas and I never had any problem with flooding. So what has changed over the years? Gas has. I have left the petcock on and drained the bowl and got a bike to start. But if you re-read my original and then the start up and shut down procedure, you will never have to drain the bowl by the screw again. ;)

Shut down procedure.

1. After riding as you are pulling into your driveway, or to speed things up you can do this a block from your house, turn off the gas.
2. Let the bike run until it actually dies from gas starvation, (this may take 2-5 minutes) But that's ok it will give you time to put away your gear.
3. Park it and now you're ready for the next time you ride whether that be in a day, or a month.

Start up procedure.

1. Turn on the gas
2. Wait for 10 seconds
3. Start the bike as you always do

It doesn't get any simpler than this.

RE: The post to end all hard start posts
 

I didn't say your procedure doesn't work and I never said our bikes were designed to flood. I dothis proceduremyself.

The procedure's success stilldoes NOT prove your theory of bad gas and does NOT disprove my theory of insufficient needle/seat pressure. If you let the petcock on and actually got the bowl to stop draining before running the gas tank dry, then you had a vacuum operated petcock. Otherwise, your petcock was off. As the gas goes out the float opens the needle. Thatis related toTremors point and he was correct.

If gas is soooooooo bad nowadays, how come this is the only bike of my 3 that has this problem and how come none of my other small engines don't have these issues? I run my tiller once a year, keep the tank full of Stabil and gas and by golly she starts up within 2 or 3 pulls every spring. And my mower....and my trimmer.....and my blower. How about my Suzuki Savage or Z400 I recently got rid of but had for a few years and never had a problem. My V-Rod is FI, so that may expain how easily it starts. All my old Stangs and GTO had carbs with gas that sat in them over winters with no problem (Stabil again). The quality of todays gas is probably better than years ago due to advances in the refining process. The issues with todays gas is the government forced additive packages and lately whispers of issues related with the ethanol added to our feuls.

RE: The post to end all hard start posts
 

Well, you could attack the problem from the standpoint that some carbs simply atomize and deliver the fuel better, when cold, than others.

If the needle wasn't properly seating, I think you would have more problems then just hard starts. I burn Japanese fuel in mine -which is their regular or mid grade fuel- and have not had problems. However, the opening on my muffler is bigger, so am I creating more vacuum to draw more fuel duringstart...LOL!

We could go-on forever theorizing about different things, but I think there is merit to the argument that the fuel definitely plays a factor. The fact the you put fuel stabilizer into allof the examples youcite seems to to support rather than detract from the fuel argument.