newbie what to look for when buying used
#1
02-17-2010, 03:47 AM
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Langley, B.C. Canada
Posts: 15
newbie what to look for when buying used
Hello everyone,
I'm planning on buying a KLX 250 this spring. I would prefer the 2009 but price will be a factor so 2007 will work too. Just wondering what to look for when buying a used KLX. Do either of these bikes have any common or inherent problems that i should be aware of or might want to allow for when making an offer to purchase.
Thank you, jamie
Langley,B.C.
I'm planning on buying a KLX 250 this spring. I would prefer the 2009 but price will be a factor so 2007 will work too. Just wondering what to look for when buying a used KLX. Do either of these bikes have any common or inherent problems that i should be aware of or might want to allow for when making an offer to purchase.
Thank you, jamie
Langley,B.C.
#2
02-17-2010, 04:23 AM
Now in its 17th Gen'. All bugs pretty much ironed out. Clean and tidy and well looked after is usually the go. I prefer the 07 to the 09, then again I'm biassed.
#3
02-17-2010, 04:59 AM
Maybe more of general suggestions here but I look at the chain and sprockets and look for wear and how clean they are. Also check the forks for leaks (apply break and pump up and down and see if any fluid is left behind on the forks). If it's possible to take the seat off and take a look at the air filter to see if it's clean and oiled.
But like WestOzKLX said, these bikes tend to be bullet proof. Just keep up on oil changes and valve checks/adjustments and the bike should last a long long time. Also I am more a fan of the 06-07 hehe
-Nick
But like WestOzKLX said, these bikes tend to be bullet proof. Just keep up on oil changes and valve checks/adjustments and the bike should last a long long time. Also I am more a fan of the 06-07 hehe
-Nick
#5
02-19-2010, 02:04 PM
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Washington
Posts: 21,060
Timing chain and noise does seem to be a common factor. I had my Cam replaced and the adjuster at about 3000 miles. I think its common for these bikes to "tick" although mine stops after the bike is warmed up. 
#7
02-19-2010, 02:14 PM
Make sure it's clean, no leaks, starts up, no smoking, make sure all gears shift smoothly up and down, check the coolant and make sure it's green and no oil traces, if you can drain the oil and make sure the oil is dark and not milky - you may be able to tell just by looking through the site glass.. That's about it. Make sure the electronics work, all lights on, etc.
And if you are going to be doing more off road then on - look for an 06-07. If you will be road riding more, go for the 09. The 09 seems to have weaker suspension. My buddy with an 09 went through two fork seals, and a rear shock already. Dealer covered it, but would be pretty pricey without. My 07 has had several hard landings off tabletops with zero problems.
Good luck!
And if you are going to be doing more off road then on - look for an 06-07. If you will be road riding more, go for the 09. The 09 seems to have weaker suspension. My buddy with an 09 went through two fork seals, and a rear shock already. Dealer covered it, but would be pretty pricey without. My 07 has had several hard landings off tabletops with zero problems.
Good luck!
#8
02-19-2010, 10:12 PM
Ok, this may seem over-kill to some ...
But unless the cost of a motorcycle is pocket change to you here's my "Pre-purchase Inspection". Low mileage or high mileage - I always do the following.
A few things require an experienced ear/eye to catch, everything else anyone can check. If you're new to motorcycles or not mechanically/electrically inclined find a buddy to bring along or pay a reputable shop for an hour's labor to go over the bike.
--------------------
First
Bike is stone cold when you get there. Check cylinder head to be sure. Also, bike on a lift/crate/small child so both wheels are off the ground.
Insist (nicely) if you have to. There are a few critical checks that require this.
Visual Inspection
Anybody with sense makes sure a bike they're selling is squeaky clean - no signs of engine oil leaks (cylinder head, valve cover, shift lever area, countershaft sprocket area), fork/shock oil leaks, coolant leaks etc.
Doesn't hurt to check though. Start at front and work your back. Leaks, oil level correct, coolant level correct, corrosion at battery, condition of wiring. Just L-O-O-K.
Front Wheel
Spin, check to see if it runs true (left-right, up-down). Check brake pads, disc, cylinder for wear/leaks.
Tap every spoke lightly with screwdriver or wrench. A clear "ping" is what you're looking for. One or two "thuds" per side is not unusual and easily fixed. More than couple and it could be a problem.
Line up front wheel so it's straight front to back - look at handlebars, they should be "square" with the wheel.
If not, bars may be bent and/or the forks tweaked due to a crash. Neither is unusual, bars can be replaced. Forks can usually be re-aligned, if they can't you're looking at $$$ to fix that problem.
Front forks
Grab front wheel and push firmly forward/backward. Absolutely no play or clicking/knocking noises. Grab forks and repeat. This checks steering head and wheel bearings.
If play or noise is present the fix could be simple as adjusting bearing clearances or $$$ to replace bearings.
Rear wheel
Spin, check - same as front. Spoke check. Brake pad/disc/cylinder check.
Grab swingarm and push forward/backward & side/side. Again looking/listening for noticeable slop and/or noise. Grab wheel, repeat.
Sight chain back to front, it should be straight, spin wheel - it should move smoothly and straight.
At back of rear sprocket pull chain away from sprocket. If chain moves more than 1/2 tooth height away chain/sprockets are due for replacement ... this has nothing to due with chain adjustment, it's wear and can't "adjust it out".
Electrical
Check all lights - high/low beams, turn signals, front/foot brake levers (brake light comes on), horn, instrument display, idiot lights.
Start Bike
Gas on, choke on, start. Should fire up with minimal fuss. If there's a "secret start sequence" have them tell you up front.
Some bikes are more finicky than others. But it should not involve a) turn bike upside down on seat, b) wiggle 3X side to side, c) bike upright, d) open/close throttle 4X slowly, e) hit starter while bouncing on seat ... you get the picture.
No visible "white-blue smoke" out exhaust pipe. Overly rich jetting/flooded engines that finally starts should not produce smoke, maybe a fuel smell, but NO smoke.
White smoke = coolant leak into cylinder = $$$.
Blue/white smoke = excessive oil in cylinder = rings - valves - valve seal problems = $$$.
Bike Warmed Up
As in hot enough you can't touch cylinder head more than 0.01343 seconds.
Kneel beside bike, by cylinder head area. Rev bike to 50-60% of redline. Listen for anything unusual. There will always be some noise, but loud rattling, knocking, grinding = bad. No smoke out exhaust.
Sometimes, unless it's blatantly obvious, it takes an experienced ear to catch a potential problem, trust your instinct or consider getting a second opinion.
Sit on bike, front brake on, pump forks as hard as you can. Should be silent and smooth. Bounce on seat to compress rear spring, ... smooth and silent.
Transmission
Engage 1st gear, a little clunking is normal (more so if bike was not thoroughly warmed up).
If the bike lurches forward, front wheel making hole in drywall and sounds like a Harley Wide-Glide going into gear = problem!
Again, sometimes only experience can find more subtle issues.
Transmission back into neutral. On small bore bikes this should be easily accomplished. A bit depends on your experience/skill at the shift lever. It should not be a 10 minute exercise in futility.
Engage 2nd gear through top gear and back to neutral.
Ride Test.
Need a place where you can get to 50 - 60mph on pavement. Dirt, especially soft dirt, can mask a variety of problems, pavement is not so accommodating.
Run through all gears, smoothly roll throttle to wide open and engine rpm to 70% - 80% of redline. Engine should pull smoothly through rev range in each gear. No smoke out exhaust.
In top gear at 60mph roll off throttle completely. Should be no back-firing. Many engines "pop" a little, no problem. But there's a difference between "pop" and "BANG"!
60mph, straight line, level road. Loosely hold the bars. The bike should continue to track straight with no side-side bar wobble. Be prepared to grab them bars quick and hard if a wobble starts!
Bar wobble could be anything from bad/worn tires, forks tweaked but fixable, bearing problems, suspension problems ... to bent frame, forks tweaked beyond quick fix etc. This is a problem that could result in expensive repairs - find the cause!
At 60mph note if wheels feels like they are "hopping" in the vertical axis. Could simply be out of balance ... or a bent rim or a suspension problem. Another one of those cheap to "oh sh#$" scenarios.
Visual Check - Again
This when you might find some leaky areas that were washed clean before you got there.
Final Test
Go for a 75 mile dual-sport loop. When you get back tell the furious owner you got lost ... then had to help a pregnant woman birth a child ... rescued puppies from a burning building and finally ... had to find a gas station to fill tank up as a you felt bad being gone so long.
A few things require an experienced ear/eye to catch, everything else anyone can check. If you're new to motorcycles or not mechanically/electrically inclined find a buddy to bring along or pay a reputable shop for an hour's labor to go over the bike.
--------------------
First
Bike is stone cold when you get there. Check cylinder head to be sure. Also, bike on a lift/crate/small child so both wheels are off the ground.
Insist (nicely) if you have to. There are a few critical checks that require this.
Visual Inspection
Anybody with sense makes sure a bike they're selling is squeaky clean - no signs of engine oil leaks (cylinder head, valve cover, shift lever area, countershaft sprocket area), fork/shock oil leaks, coolant leaks etc.
Doesn't hurt to check though. Start at front and work your back. Leaks, oil level correct, coolant level correct, corrosion at battery, condition of wiring. Just L-O-O-K.
Front Wheel
Spin, check to see if it runs true (left-right, up-down). Check brake pads, disc, cylinder for wear/leaks.
Tap every spoke lightly with screwdriver or wrench. A clear "ping" is what you're looking for. One or two "thuds" per side is not unusual and easily fixed. More than couple and it could be a problem.
Line up front wheel so it's straight front to back - look at handlebars, they should be "square" with the wheel.
If not, bars may be bent and/or the forks tweaked due to a crash. Neither is unusual, bars can be replaced. Forks can usually be re-aligned, if they can't you're looking at $$$ to fix that problem.
Front forks
Grab front wheel and push firmly forward/backward. Absolutely no play or clicking/knocking noises. Grab forks and repeat. This checks steering head and wheel bearings.
If play or noise is present the fix could be simple as adjusting bearing clearances or $$$ to replace bearings.
Rear wheel
Spin, check - same as front. Spoke check. Brake pad/disc/cylinder check.
Grab swingarm and push forward/backward & side/side. Again looking/listening for noticeable slop and/or noise. Grab wheel, repeat.
Sight chain back to front, it should be straight, spin wheel - it should move smoothly and straight.
At back of rear sprocket pull chain away from sprocket. If chain moves more than 1/2 tooth height away chain/sprockets are due for replacement ... this has nothing to due with chain adjustment, it's wear and can't "adjust it out".
Electrical
Check all lights - high/low beams, turn signals, front/foot brake levers (brake light comes on), horn, instrument display, idiot lights.
Start Bike
Gas on, choke on, start. Should fire up with minimal fuss. If there's a "secret start sequence" have them tell you up front.
Some bikes are more finicky than others. But it should not involve a) turn bike upside down on seat, b) wiggle 3X side to side, c) bike upright, d) open/close throttle 4X slowly, e) hit starter while bouncing on seat ... you get the picture.
No visible "white-blue smoke" out exhaust pipe. Overly rich jetting/flooded engines that finally starts should not produce smoke, maybe a fuel smell, but NO smoke.
White smoke = coolant leak into cylinder = $$$.
Blue/white smoke = excessive oil in cylinder = rings - valves - valve seal problems = $$$.
Bike Warmed Up
As in hot enough you can't touch cylinder head more than 0.01343 seconds.
Kneel beside bike, by cylinder head area. Rev bike to 50-60% of redline. Listen for anything unusual. There will always be some noise, but loud rattling, knocking, grinding = bad. No smoke out exhaust.
Sometimes, unless it's blatantly obvious, it takes an experienced ear to catch a potential problem, trust your instinct or consider getting a second opinion.
Sit on bike, front brake on, pump forks as hard as you can. Should be silent and smooth. Bounce on seat to compress rear spring, ... smooth and silent.
Transmission
Engage 1st gear, a little clunking is normal (more so if bike was not thoroughly warmed up).
If the bike lurches forward, front wheel making hole in drywall and sounds like a Harley Wide-Glide going into gear = problem!
Again, sometimes only experience can find more subtle issues.
Transmission back into neutral. On small bore bikes this should be easily accomplished. A bit depends on your experience/skill at the shift lever. It should not be a 10 minute exercise in futility.
Engage 2nd gear through top gear and back to neutral.
Ride Test.
Need a place where you can get to 50 - 60mph on pavement. Dirt, especially soft dirt, can mask a variety of problems, pavement is not so accommodating.
Run through all gears, smoothly roll throttle to wide open and engine rpm to 70% - 80% of redline. Engine should pull smoothly through rev range in each gear. No smoke out exhaust.
In top gear at 60mph roll off throttle completely. Should be no back-firing. Many engines "pop" a little, no problem. But there's a difference between "pop" and "BANG"!
60mph, straight line, level road. Loosely hold the bars. The bike should continue to track straight with no side-side bar wobble. Be prepared to grab them bars quick and hard if a wobble starts!
Bar wobble could be anything from bad/worn tires, forks tweaked but fixable, bearing problems, suspension problems ... to bent frame, forks tweaked beyond quick fix etc. This is a problem that could result in expensive repairs - find the cause!
At 60mph note if wheels feels like they are "hopping" in the vertical axis. Could simply be out of balance ... or a bent rim or a suspension problem. Another one of those cheap to "oh sh#$" scenarios.
Visual Check - Again
This when you might find some leaky areas that were washed clean before you got there.
Final Test
Go for a 75 mile dual-sport loop. When you get back tell the furious owner you got lost ... then had to help a pregnant woman birth a child ... rescued puppies from a burning building and finally ... had to find a gas station to fill tank up as a you felt bad being gone so long.
Last edited by LongmontKLXr; 02-19-2010 at 10:35 PM.
#9
02-20-2010, 02:25 AM
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Langley, B.C. Canada
Posts: 15
Thank you LongmontKLXr,
Being new to motorcycles i think i will pay a shop mechanic to take a look at it.
I really appreciate the detailed check list . It gives me a good idea what should be in the report when the mechanic checks the bike.
Speedbird
Being new to motorcycles i think i will pay a shop mechanic to take a look at it.
I really appreciate the detailed check list . It gives me a good idea what should be in the report when the mechanic checks the bike.
Speedbird
#10
02-22-2010, 10:21 AM
But unless the cost of a motorcycle is pocket change to you here's my "Pre-purchase Inspection". Low mileage or high mileage - I always do the following.
A few things require an experienced ear/eye to catch, everything else anyone can check. If you're new to motorcycles or not mechanically/electrically inclined find a buddy to bring along or pay a reputable shop for an hour's labor to go over the bike.
--------------------
First
Bike is stone cold when you get there. Check cylinder head to be sure. Also, bike on a lift/crate/small child so both wheels are off the ground.
Insist (nicely) if you have to. There are a few critical checks that require this.
Visual Inspection
Anybody with sense makes sure a bike they're selling is squeaky clean - no signs of engine oil leaks (cylinder head, valve cover, shift lever area, countershaft sprocket area), fork/shock oil leaks, coolant leaks etc.
Doesn't hurt to check though. Start at front and work your back. Leaks, oil level correct, coolant level correct, corrosion at battery, condition of wiring. Just L-O-O-K.
Front Wheel
Spin, check to see if it runs true (left-right, up-down). Check brake pads, disc, cylinder for wear/leaks.
Tap every spoke lightly with screwdriver or wrench. A clear "ping" is what you're looking for. One or two "thuds" per side is not unusual and easily fixed. More than couple and it could be a problem.
Line up front wheel so it's straight front to back - look at handlebars, they should be "square" with the wheel.
If not, bars may be bent and/or the forks tweaked due to a crash. Neither is unusual, bars can be replaced. Forks can usually be re-aligned, if they can't you're looking at $$$ to fix that problem.
Front forks
Grab front wheel and push firmly forward/backward. Absolutely no play or clicking/knocking noises. Grab forks and repeat. This checks steering head and wheel bearings.
If play or noise is present the fix could be simple as adjusting bearing clearances or $$$ to replace bearings.
Rear wheel
Spin, check - same as front. Spoke check. Brake pad/disc/cylinder check.
Grab swingarm and push forward/backward & side/side. Again looking/listening for noticeable slop and/or noise. Grab wheel, repeat.
Sight chain back to front, it should be straight, spin wheel - it should move smoothly and straight.
At back of rear sprocket pull chain away from sprocket. If chain moves more than 1/2 tooth height away chain/sprockets are due for replacement ... this has nothing to due with chain adjustment, it's wear and can't "adjust it out".
Electrical
Check all lights - high/low beams, turn signals, front/foot brake levers (brake light comes on), horn, instrument display, idiot lights.
Start Bike
Gas on, choke on, start. Should fire up with minimal fuss. If there's a "secret start sequence" have them tell you up front.
Some bikes are more finicky than others. But it should not involve a) turn bike upside down on seat, b) wiggle 3X side to side, c) bike upright, d) open/close throttle 4X slowly, e) hit starter while bouncing on seat ... you get the picture.
No visible "white-blue smoke" out exhaust pipe. Overly rich jetting/flooded engines that finally starts should not produce smoke, maybe a fuel smell, but NO smoke.
White smoke = coolant leak into cylinder = $$$.
Blue/white smoke = excessive oil in cylinder = rings - valves - valve seal problems = $$$.
Bike Warmed Up
As in hot enough you can't touch cylinder head more than 0.01343 seconds.
Kneel beside bike, by cylinder head area. Rev bike to 50-60% of redline. Listen for anything unusual. There will always be some noise, but loud rattling, knocking, grinding = bad. No smoke out exhaust.
Sometimes, unless it's blatantly obvious, it takes an experienced ear to catch a potential problem, trust your instinct or consider getting a second opinion.
Sit on bike, front brake on, pump forks as hard as you can. Should be silent and smooth. Bounce on seat to compress rear spring, ... smooth and silent.
Transmission
Engage 1st gear, a little clunking is normal (more so if bike was not thoroughly warmed up).
If the bike lurches forward, front wheel making hole in drywall and sounds like a Harley Wide-Glide going into gear = problem!
Again, sometimes only experience can find more subtle issues.
Transmission back into neutral. On small bore bikes this should be easily accomplished. A bit depends on your experience/skill at the shift lever. It should not be a 10 minute exercise in futility.
Engage 2nd gear through top gear and back to neutral.
Ride Test.
Need a place where you can get to 50 - 60mph on pavement. Dirt, especially soft dirt, can mask a variety of problems, pavement is not so accommodating.
Run through all gears, smoothly roll throttle to wide open and engine rpm to 70% - 80% of redline. Engine should pull smoothly through rev range in each gear. No smoke out exhaust.
In top gear at 60mph roll off throttle completely. Should be no back-firing. Many engines "pop" a little, no problem. But there's a difference between "pop" and "BANG"!
60mph, straight line, level road. Loosely hold the bars. The bike should continue to track straight with no side-side bar wobble. Be prepared to grab them bars quick and hard if a wobble starts!
Bar wobble could be anything from bad/worn tires, forks tweaked but fixable, bearing problems, suspension problems ... to bent frame, forks tweaked beyond quick fix etc. This is a problem that could result in expensive repairs - find the cause!
At 60mph note if wheels feels like they are "hopping" in the vertical axis. Could simply be out of balance ... or a bent rim or a suspension problem. Another one of those cheap to "oh sh#$" scenarios.
Visual Check - Again
This when you might find some leaky areas that were washed clean before you got there.
Final Test
Go for a 75 mile dual-sport loop. When you get back tell the furious owner you got lost ... then had to help a pregnant woman birth a child ... rescued puppies from a burning building and finally ... had to find a gas station to fill tank up as a you felt bad being gone so long.
A few things require an experienced ear/eye to catch, everything else anyone can check. If you're new to motorcycles or not mechanically/electrically inclined find a buddy to bring along or pay a reputable shop for an hour's labor to go over the bike.
--------------------
First
Bike is stone cold when you get there. Check cylinder head to be sure. Also, bike on a lift/crate/small child so both wheels are off the ground.
Insist (nicely) if you have to. There are a few critical checks that require this.
Visual Inspection
Anybody with sense makes sure a bike they're selling is squeaky clean - no signs of engine oil leaks (cylinder head, valve cover, shift lever area, countershaft sprocket area), fork/shock oil leaks, coolant leaks etc.
Doesn't hurt to check though. Start at front and work your back. Leaks, oil level correct, coolant level correct, corrosion at battery, condition of wiring. Just L-O-O-K.
Front Wheel
Spin, check to see if it runs true (left-right, up-down). Check brake pads, disc, cylinder for wear/leaks.
Tap every spoke lightly with screwdriver or wrench. A clear "ping" is what you're looking for. One or two "thuds" per side is not unusual and easily fixed. More than couple and it could be a problem.
Line up front wheel so it's straight front to back - look at handlebars, they should be "square" with the wheel.
If not, bars may be bent and/or the forks tweaked due to a crash. Neither is unusual, bars can be replaced. Forks can usually be re-aligned, if they can't you're looking at $$$ to fix that problem.
Front forks
Grab front wheel and push firmly forward/backward. Absolutely no play or clicking/knocking noises. Grab forks and repeat. This checks steering head and wheel bearings.
If play or noise is present the fix could be simple as adjusting bearing clearances or $$$ to replace bearings.
Rear wheel
Spin, check - same as front. Spoke check. Brake pad/disc/cylinder check.
Grab swingarm and push forward/backward & side/side. Again looking/listening for noticeable slop and/or noise. Grab wheel, repeat.
Sight chain back to front, it should be straight, spin wheel - it should move smoothly and straight.
At back of rear sprocket pull chain away from sprocket. If chain moves more than 1/2 tooth height away chain/sprockets are due for replacement ... this has nothing to due with chain adjustment, it's wear and can't "adjust it out".
Electrical
Check all lights - high/low beams, turn signals, front/foot brake levers (brake light comes on), horn, instrument display, idiot lights.
Start Bike
Gas on, choke on, start. Should fire up with minimal fuss. If there's a "secret start sequence" have them tell you up front.
Some bikes are more finicky than others. But it should not involve a) turn bike upside down on seat, b) wiggle 3X side to side, c) bike upright, d) open/close throttle 4X slowly, e) hit starter while bouncing on seat ... you get the picture.
No visible "white-blue smoke" out exhaust pipe. Overly rich jetting/flooded engines that finally starts should not produce smoke, maybe a fuel smell, but NO smoke.
White smoke = coolant leak into cylinder = $$$.
Blue/white smoke = excessive oil in cylinder = rings - valves - valve seal problems = $$$.
Bike Warmed Up
As in hot enough you can't touch cylinder head more than 0.01343 seconds.
Kneel beside bike, by cylinder head area. Rev bike to 50-60% of redline. Listen for anything unusual. There will always be some noise, but loud rattling, knocking, grinding = bad. No smoke out exhaust.
Sometimes, unless it's blatantly obvious, it takes an experienced ear to catch a potential problem, trust your instinct or consider getting a second opinion.
Sit on bike, front brake on, pump forks as hard as you can. Should be silent and smooth. Bounce on seat to compress rear spring, ... smooth and silent.
Transmission
Engage 1st gear, a little clunking is normal (more so if bike was not thoroughly warmed up).
If the bike lurches forward, front wheel making hole in drywall and sounds like a Harley Wide-Glide going into gear = problem!
Again, sometimes only experience can find more subtle issues.
Transmission back into neutral. On small bore bikes this should be easily accomplished. A bit depends on your experience/skill at the shift lever. It should not be a 10 minute exercise in futility.
Engage 2nd gear through top gear and back to neutral.
Ride Test.
Need a place where you can get to 50 - 60mph on pavement. Dirt, especially soft dirt, can mask a variety of problems, pavement is not so accommodating.
Run through all gears, smoothly roll throttle to wide open and engine rpm to 70% - 80% of redline. Engine should pull smoothly through rev range in each gear. No smoke out exhaust.
In top gear at 60mph roll off throttle completely. Should be no back-firing. Many engines "pop" a little, no problem. But there's a difference between "pop" and "BANG"!
60mph, straight line, level road. Loosely hold the bars. The bike should continue to track straight with no side-side bar wobble. Be prepared to grab them bars quick and hard if a wobble starts!
Bar wobble could be anything from bad/worn tires, forks tweaked but fixable, bearing problems, suspension problems ... to bent frame, forks tweaked beyond quick fix etc. This is a problem that could result in expensive repairs - find the cause!
At 60mph note if wheels feels like they are "hopping" in the vertical axis. Could simply be out of balance ... or a bent rim or a suspension problem. Another one of those cheap to "oh sh#$" scenarios.
Visual Check - Again
This when you might find some leaky areas that were washed clean before you got there.
Final Test
Go for a 75 mile dual-sport loop. When you get back tell the furious owner you got lost ... then had to help a pregnant woman birth a child ... rescued puppies from a burning building and finally ... had to find a gas station to fill tank up as a you felt bad being gone so long.
hey deej i think this sould go in the faq's.