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  #31  
Old 05-02-2020, 11:00 PM
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Ok, Jeff, I decided I'd better make sure you know something - the KLX250S induction system is designed with/around a 34mm throttle body. The 40hp KX250F induction system (for 2020) is designed for/around a 44mm Throttle body. There is no way to make a KLX250 intake tract flow the same as the KX250F's - and 40hp requires the flow rates of the KX250F induction system.

This will be a limiting factor for your peak HP numbers regardless of porting/cams/etc.. On the bright side, you should be able to create a TRQ curve with a shape and at levels we have never seen before.
So, generally speaking, porting and cams aimed at producing high RPM power (9000 rpms +) should be avoided as such mods trade off Trq for more HP - and top end HP is something your induction system won't allow you to fully capitalize on..

 
  #32  
Old 05-03-2020, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Klxster
Hey @J Higgens (Jeff). I have a few more thoughts for you to chew on.

We know that porting and cams can take a 351 to approximately 34 hp.Typical porting ( exhaust port bowl, intake port above the valve and intake valve casting streamlining) has typically only been worth about 2hp. 101 Cams are generally worth another 2-3hp.

The choice of cams: Webcams makes 3 performance grinds (631, 101, 55), Beets offers one. Bill Blue once told me the webcams 101 was designed for Larry Roeselers race bike and NOT the KLX250S, So you might talk to him about cam options with a full tilt 351 - while he certainly does have a ported and camed 351, he has no knowledge of how a lidless airbox unleashes big power when re-tuned for the increased airflow (except what I have told him). We have no data on any cam except the 101, so the Beet, 631, and the 55(with high lift springs) are total unknowns. It is not out of the question that lidless + porting + Webcams 55 (with performance valve springs) could set a new "record" for KLX power levels.

Beet offers a replacement injector for fueling the 351. This likely means the stock injector cannot properly fuel a hopped up 351 due to high Duty Cycle.

We all need a detailed report of your PCFC tuning. I know it uses PC5 maps, but I don't know if it interfaces with WinPep 8 (the dyno's software) in order to allow dyno tuning (like the PC5 does).. But we will need the details, as you learn them, on the PCFC..
Definitely some things to think about. I definitely would like to go with the big cams to see what kind of power the KLX can dish out. I spoke with Bill about cams before and he said not to do them. He said someone in Asia did cams and got slower lap times with them. However, I think there are more factors than just the cams. We'll see how it does with the ported head, I plan on getting the map that the tuner finished with. I've heard a lot of people overseas have gone with a Ninja 650 injector. Kind of curious myself about that. So, I might test that out before picking up the Beet injector. Looking forward to the results!

Also, I don't think the KLX will peak out around "uncorked" KX power levels. The KLX should be able to get close to 35, which is similar to a stock KX. But yes, the torque should be pretty wicked
 

Last edited by J Higgens; 05-03-2020 at 12:08 AM.
  #33  
Old 05-03-2020, 01:51 AM
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Go carefully on choosing an injector. We have no way of re-calibrating the ECM data fields that pertain to driving the injector. So any replacement must have very similar, or identical, latencies, scaling, fuel pressure table/expectations, Voltage table, etc... The ECM will drive any new injector the same exact way it did the original injector - which absolutely won't work if the new injector has significant differences in its' operational characteristics from the original.. The scenario to look for, on such a mismatch, is a loss of idle capability/quality and the low/mid is horribly overfueled. BTW, using a "biggy" injector that's overfueling your bike can create a "cylinder wash" that will destroy your 351 kit.

If "everyone" is using a particular injector in their KLX, perhaps try it - but you should only try out an injector while the bike is hooked up to the dyno with AFR sensing in operation ! That way immediate changes can be made to the fueling curve without running the engine very long with dangerous fueling..

If the PCFC interfaces with the Dyno like a PC5, you can just start tuning with the stock injector.. If duty cycles hit 90+ , slap in a SLIGHTLY larger "best choice" injector and continue tuning.. Create a "straight line" 12.8:1 at wide open throttle (WOT) for best compromise between component protection and max power production. Do this regardless of whatever "expert" is telling you (probably) that 13 to 13.2 to 1 is best..
Remind the "expert" that your cooling system is designed for a mild 20hp ,250cc engine, and you need a little component protection built in to your WOT fueling. I would tell you to explain that 12.8:1 makes more power than 13 - 13.2 to 1 , but explaining flame front speed, flame propagation characteristics, etc, of various AFR's is just too tedious.. If "component protection" gets a blank stare, tell em to google it, but to do-up 12.8:1 @ WOT..

P.S. One of many "pet peeves" of mine is idiots leaning their WOT fueling, thinking that they will get better gas mileage or that MPG is a "concern"... Morons !
 

Last edited by Klxster; 05-05-2020 at 04:01 AM.
  #34  
Old 05-03-2020, 02:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Klxster
Go carefully on choosing an injector. We have no way of re-calibrating the ECM data fields that pertain to driving the injector. So any replacement must have very similar, or identical, latencies, scaling, fuel pressure table/expectations, Voltage table, etc... The ECM will drive any new injector the same exact way it did the original injector - which absolutely won't work if the new injector has significant differences in its' operational characteristics from the original.. The scenario to look for, on such a mismatch, is a loss of idle capability/quality and the low/mid is horribly overfueledo. BTW, using a "biggy" injector that's overfueling your bike can create a "cylinder wash" that will destroy your 351 kit.

If "everyone" is using a particular injector in their KLX, perhaps try it - but you should only try out an injector while the bike is hooked up to the dyno with AFR sensing in operation ! That way immediate changes can be made to the fueling curve without running the engine very long with dangerous fueling..

If the PCFC interfaces with the Dyno like a PC5, you can just start tuning with the stock injector.. If duty cycles hit 90+ , slap in a SLIGHTLY larger "best choice" injector and continue tuning.. Create a "straight line" 12.8:1 at wide open throttle (WOT) for best compromise between component protection and max power production. Do this regardless of whatever "expert" is telling you (probably) that 13 to 13.2 to 1 is best..
Remind the "expert" that your cooling system is designed for a mild 250cc engine, and you need a little component protection built in to your WOT fueling. I would tell you to explain that 12.8:1 makes more power than 13 - 13.2 to 1 , but explaining flame front speed, flame propagation characteristics, etc, of various AFR's is just too tedious.. If "component protection" gets a blank stare, tell em to google it, but to do-up 12.8:1 @ WOT..
Why yes, of course. Let's not forget that I am doing this to be able to experiment with the platform. Before I go into the dyno session, I will have a plan worked out with the tuner for the duty cycle. So, if a bigger injector is needed, I will supply one.
 
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