Now that's funny. I just saw a documentary on police in Canada. You guys may be right about keeping guns out.

 

DC, if you really know Godwin's Law, I'm not seeing the connection to this thread. But now that YOU mention it, maybe if the German people had been more aware of many of the principles of our U.S. founding fathers, they might have realized the tactics being used upon them to take control of their government and ultimately their lives. Hitler...yes...I dared to mention his name in spite of your reference to Godwin's Law...was a genius in charisma and manipulation to convince his people to follow him on a path to destruction. The German people were not a backward, ignorant people, and they still fell prey to a political promise of safety, prosperity, and power through their government. You should read more of Mike Godwin's reasoning behind the premise of what we refer to as his "law". He just wanted people to be aware of inappropriate comparisons to someone as vile as Hitler or the **** party in general when making such reference in the setting of everday issues that we disagree with. Example: The city is putting in parking meters that will charge 25 cents an hour...what a bunch of ****'s. The discussion here, which has been quite civil and on point IMO, is about the possibility of governments seizing power slowly, subtlety, and with the noblest of motives...at least on the surface.

 

Not seeing the connection?

It's clear that both positions in this debate are anything but conciliable.

That being said, could something profitable emerge from it? Your answer worth mine.

Arguments of both sides haven't changed for ages and they always lead to the same thing. And you know what this thing is.

 

Here's a personal experience about a gun and a couple young Canadians.

One day I had a very uncomfortable experience with a customer of mine. I do construction work, and after completing a job for one of my customers, the day before, I showed up at his house the next morning with an invoice, hoping he'd write a check for me right away. I knew something was wrong pretty much right away when his wife answered the door, because she wasn't the cheerful friendly woman she normally was. She simply let me in, called her husband, and quickly disappeared into the next room and was talking very quietly to another woman.
The husband (Joe) showed up, he seemed a little distracted and unsure what to say to me, but we greeted and I told him the job was done, and I had an invoice for him. I saw a strange look in his eyes, but didn't really comprehend what was going on. All he said was "come on upstairs", so I followed him. When he we arrived upstairs he pulled out his check book and started looking at my invoice, but as he was writing my check he was obviously holding back tears. By this time it was clear something wasn't right so I asked him what was wrong? He said they just lost their son.

I knew he had a son that was working as a diamond driller in South America, and immediately assumed it was that son, and of course I starting feeling pretty awful, trying to get money from the guy while his family was still grieving from the loss of their son. When I asked what happened I was even more shocked to find out it wasn't his older diamond worker son, who died, but his younger 14 year old son who died, and that he had been shot just that night at a friends house. While trying his best to hold back a flood of tears, he went on to related the story, or at least the story he had been told, about what had happened.
The story went like this, Joe's son was over at a friend's house, the friends father was a cop, but was not home at the time, and somehow the two boys got hold of one of his father's guns, and "were cleaning it". While Joe's son was holding the gun it went off and he shot himself in the head. End of story.
Of course the story sounded fishy, but this is all Joe had been told up to this point.
So here they were dealing with the loss of their son, an obviously made up story about a cop's gun in the hands of a couple teenage boys, and now, some inconsiderate idiot looking to get paid for a job.
I apologized profusely for the intrusion and tried to leave without the check, but he wouldn't let me go with out it, reasoning that if I didn't get my check now they might be so busy later with other maters that I might not get it for a long time. So I ended up leaving with a check, but I sure didn't feel good about it.

So there's your Canadian gun story. You asked, "will Canadians shoot each other just because they have guns?", you tell me?

 

Mucky, that's a tragic story for sure, but how would any gun control issue address this situation? If I understand correctly, it was a cop's gun that was used in this scenario. Are you saying that cops shouldn't have guns?...even in Canada? Sounds like the cop didn't secure his weapon properly at home...and has a kid who wasn't properly admonished about access to his father's gun. Mucky, I'm not stepping on this story to diminish its tragedy, but I'm not seeing what this has to do with the gun control discussion going on here.

 

^^^THIS underscores the significant cultural difference we are so clearly encountering here! Whereas in a pro-gun culture (let's say the USA), there is more of a tendency to say “I love my family therefore I am going to keep a gun in the house” while in a relatively anti-gun culture (let's say Canada), there would be a tendency to say “I love my family, therefore I will NOT keep a gun in the house”.

Interestingly enough, several years ago when I first met the met the woman who would become my wife, I was also developing a bit of an interest in hand guns and I was considering getting my license and a gun to use at the range. She made it quite clear that she would never be part of any house hold which had guns in it. Needless to say I remain gun-less!


^^^THIS underscores another clear cultural difference, and you might be right Lotrat; perhaps I would reconsider my position if I lived in that context.

Sadly here too! In addition to my wife's adamant stand against me getting a gun, another reason I never pursued a license is that in Canada, when you obtain a gun license, you simultaneously waive your Charter right of protection from unreasonable search a seizure!? Ridiculous!!!

Our OHV areas are also gradually being clawed back by the Provincial & Federal Governments under pressure of environmental, back country, & horseback lobby groups. One of the reasons I got into dual sport several years ago was to try it while I still can!

Dusty might be right that this thread is close to jumping the shark! Regardless, I never for one second expected anyone to give up their gun based on my posts, nor did I hear anything that would cause me to go buy a gun. What I have come to appreciate through the course of this discussion however is just how well informed ya'll are on the history, legislation, and responsibility of gun ownership.

Wow, just wow...

 

180 children, 11 years of age or younger were killed by a firearm in 2010.
The CDC breakdown: 41 deaths were classified as unintentional, 127 as homicide, four as suicide, and eight from an undetermined intent.

Over 800 children drown in swimming pools that same year. Fatal drowning remains the second-leading cause of unintentional injury-related death for children ages 1 to 14 years.

Among children ages 10 to 14, motor vehicle occupant injury is the leading cause of unintentional injury related death, followed by pedestrian injury, drowning, fire and burns, and bicycle injury... guns didn't even make the top 5. Next is suffocation, poisoning, and falls. Gun deaths get mixed in with "misc" so the CDC can keep them on the radar. There is no public outcry to prevent any of the real leading causes of unintentional death of children... but the guns are an easy target. Two boys playing with a cop's gun should never have happened. I blame the gun owner not the gun.

 

gc, lots of thoughtful and insightful comments in your responses there. These kinds of discussions can often lead to hyper-emotional responses without reason or reflection. Even with differing opinions, it's still often possible to discuss issues like this without vitriol. Too bad that many in government can't do the same thing to accomplish the goals of the people they represent. I agree that we've probably exhausted most of the perspectives on this issue, and I've found it interesting.

 

That because we all agree that the KLX250 is an awesome bike! How different can we really be?

I'll add a few more comments.

Oh I understand this completely. When my 1st son was born I cleared out the guns for the same reason. My thinking was flawed and after careful consideration I rearmed my home. But as I asked before, what's your plan if someone breaks into your home? What's the plan if you're not home and your wife is alone?

While the murder rate is higher down here, you still have murders in Canada. The rape rate is even 112% higher in Canada than in the US.

Not sure if you heard about the horrible story of a family in Cheshire CT, but it will enrage anyone that reads it. Warning it's a very graphic story.

Cheshire, Connecticut, home invasion murders - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You read what these two guys did and tell me what your plan would be. What would your wife do? I would love a world where we don't need guns, but if two guys show up in the night what's your plan to win the fight? You can go toe to toe, but I prefer to have the advantage. I would never want my wife to faced such a horrible situation without any means to defend herself and our children in her own home.

I love a good hijack!

 

@lotrat: " The rape rate is even 112% higher in Canada than in the US."

Not sure what the legal process is like in the US for a rape victim, but in Canada we take great measures to minimize the trauma for the victim. Possibly this leads to more reporting of rapes in Canada(?).

Also, in Canada, we do not distinguish between 'rape' and 'sexual assault'. Therefore an incident of groping on the subway is essentially charged the same as an incident of penetration at gun point...