Long rides and engine wear , how do I prepare my motor for aggressive riding?
#1
12-08-2017, 12:46 AM
Long rides and engine wear , how do I prepare my motor for aggressive riding?
I have a 2009 klx 250s
some notes:
-motor runs strong
-motor oil is basically clear
-I always keep good maintenance on the motor (its my biggest concern)
-no leaks
-I believe the radiator works
-my riding environment is on average 70-80 deg F (never freezing)
Anyways, I notice whenever I take my bike out I end up on long adventures. I mainly do city driving but I've found a ton of offload spots around where I live + a lot of hills.
So to summarize what kind of riding this bike goes through ,
streets driving , many hill climbs per ride, many stops, flat gravel dirt, rarely drop it ,
Im an aggressive rider like to rev hard and go for + 4 hours of riding. (with maybe two 10 min breaks)
I notice this is my riding style and thus the work the bike has to do is a lot .
80% street 20% offroad. (never on freeway , I try to keep her below 50 mph)
So my questions are:
1) How do I prepare my bike SPECIFICALLY for this type of work ? ( I guess heat is the main enemy here )
like what new parts might I be interested in, what kind of maintenance (oils fuels) would help...
"thicker/heavier" motor oil?
I really want to get a temp gauge , not sure if they make em for the KLX.
2)How long is too long ? how long should a standard non aggressive ride be?
some notes:
-motor runs strong
-motor oil is basically clear
-I always keep good maintenance on the motor (its my biggest concern)
-no leaks
-I believe the radiator works
-my riding environment is on average 70-80 deg F (never freezing)
Anyways, I notice whenever I take my bike out I end up on long adventures. I mainly do city driving but I've found a ton of offload spots around where I live + a lot of hills.
So to summarize what kind of riding this bike goes through ,
streets driving , many hill climbs per ride, many stops, flat gravel dirt, rarely drop it ,
Im an aggressive rider like to rev hard and go for + 4 hours of riding. (with maybe two 10 min breaks)
I notice this is my riding style and thus the work the bike has to do is a lot .
80% street 20% offroad. (never on freeway , I try to keep her below 50 mph)
So my questions are:
1) How do I prepare my bike SPECIFICALLY for this type of work ? ( I guess heat is the main enemy here )
like what new parts might I be interested in, what kind of maintenance (oils fuels) would help...
"thicker/heavier" motor oil?
I really want to get a temp gauge , not sure if they make em for the KLX.
2)How long is too long ? how long should a standard non aggressive ride be?
Last edited by horror_fan; 12-08-2017 at 12:58 AM.
#3
12-08-2017, 01:05 PM
Heavier oil will likely not really do anything for you. That is old "muscle car think". With the quality of oil now, the KX450F runs 5w40. Even the NASCAR teams run the lower viscosity multi-grade oils. Modern machining and metallurgy along with current oil technology allows it quite easily. Kawasaki wouldn't recommend a lesser grade than they think would have the engine run the best and longest.
Almost all motorcycle engines are high performance units, where cars and trucks are pretty much pedestrian in comparison, if that is the area you come from. Cycle World ran an R1 Yamaha against a Viper on the track. I think the Viper got a quicker lap time, but it started to go belly up after 3 seriously hard laps by a good driver. The commentary on the R1 was that a rider could ride to a track day, run hard all session long, and ride the bike home. Same engineering in the ZX10 (comparable to the R1) as in the KLX250. The 250 can take the pounding, especially considering the mild state of tune when compared to the motocrossers.
If you want proof of what Kawasaki apparently thinks of the capability of the KLX250, consider the red line is like 10,500 rpm, but the true horsepower peak is around 8600 rpm. They figure it's good for nearly 2000 rpm over rev. Plus it is based on the off road only KLX300R which people, like Larry Roseler, raced in some off road races that favor the smaller four stroke back in the "olden days".
When it comes to a temperature gauge, based on the history that virtually all dual sports and off road biked do not have temp gauges and theenduro and MX bikes seldom have fans, I put 50,000 miles on the 650 and several on the 250 and have yet to see the temp light. The 650 occasionally fired up the fan for a minute if I was at a standstill or turning around on some trail on a hot day, never had that yet with the 250 though. I'd spend the gauge money on suspension for what you're doing. The temp gauge would be a pricey likely never needed decoration where suspension work is a major benefit.
Of course this is all my opinion... only the last paragraph. The rest is pretty much the facts. I mean why would you let a weak engine over rev 2000 rpm? And how does the KLX compare to a 1968 BSA 250 in metallurgy and machining processes.
Almost all motorcycle engines are high performance units, where cars and trucks are pretty much pedestrian in comparison, if that is the area you come from. Cycle World ran an R1 Yamaha against a Viper on the track. I think the Viper got a quicker lap time, but it started to go belly up after 3 seriously hard laps by a good driver. The commentary on the R1 was that a rider could ride to a track day, run hard all session long, and ride the bike home. Same engineering in the ZX10 (comparable to the R1) as in the KLX250. The 250 can take the pounding, especially considering the mild state of tune when compared to the motocrossers.
If you want proof of what Kawasaki apparently thinks of the capability of the KLX250, consider the red line is like 10,500 rpm, but the true horsepower peak is around 8600 rpm. They figure it's good for nearly 2000 rpm over rev. Plus it is based on the off road only KLX300R which people, like Larry Roseler, raced in some off road races that favor the smaller four stroke back in the "olden days".
When it comes to a temperature gauge, based on the history that virtually all dual sports and off road biked do not have temp gauges and theenduro and MX bikes seldom have fans, I put 50,000 miles on the 650 and several on the 250 and have yet to see the temp light. The 650 occasionally fired up the fan for a minute if I was at a standstill or turning around on some trail on a hot day, never had that yet with the 250 though. I'd spend the gauge money on suspension for what you're doing. The temp gauge would be a pricey likely never needed decoration where suspension work is a major benefit.
Of course this is all my opinion... only the last paragraph. The rest is pretty much the facts. I mean why would you let a weak engine over rev 2000 rpm? And how does the KLX compare to a 1968 BSA 250 in metallurgy and machining processes.
Last edited by klx678; 12-08-2017 at 01:07 PM.
#4
12-08-2017, 02:07 PM
The KLX and the 1968 BSA are completely different engines. That is just a terrible comparison. I would compare a KLX to a 1966 F1 engine, well, not quite on the top end, but everything else.
#5
12-08-2017, 03:33 PM
Heavier oil will likely not really do anything for you. That is old "muscle car think". With the quality of oil now, the KX450F runs 5w40. Even the NASCAR teams run the lower viscosity multi-grade oils. Modern machining and metallurgy along with current oil technology allows it quite easily. Kawasaki wouldn't recommend a lesser grade than they think would have the engine run the best and longest.
Almost all motorcycle engines are high performance units, where cars and trucks are pretty much pedestrian in comparison, if that is the area you come from. Cycle World ran an R1 Yamaha against a Viper on the track. I think the Viper got a quicker lap time, but it started to go belly up after 3 seriously hard laps by a good driver. The commentary on the R1 was that a rider could ride to a track day, run hard all session long, and ride the bike home. Same engineering in the ZX10 (comparable to the R1) as in the KLX250. The 250 can take the pounding, especially considering the mild state of tune when compared to the motocrossers.
If you want proof of what Kawasaki apparently thinks of the capability of the KLX250, consider the red line is like 10,500 rpm, but the true horsepower peak is around 8600 rpm. They figure it's good for nearly 2000 rpm over rev. Plus it is based on the off road only KLX300R which people, like Larry Roseler, raced in some off road races that favor the smaller four stroke back in the "olden days".
When it comes to a temperature gauge, based on the history that virtually all dual sports and off road biked do not have temp gauges and theenduro and MX bikes seldom have fans, I put 50,000 miles on the 650 and several on the 250 and have yet to see the temp light. The 650 occasionally fired up the fan for a minute if I was at a standstill or turning around on some trail on a hot day, never had that yet with the 250 though. I'd spend the gauge money on suspension for what you're doing. The temp gauge would be a pricey likely never needed decoration where suspension work is a major benefit.
Of course this is all my opinion... only the last paragraph. The rest is pretty much the facts. I mean why would you let a weak engine over rev 2000 rpm? And how does the KLX compare to a 1968 BSA 250 in metallurgy and machining processes.
Almost all motorcycle engines are high performance units, where cars and trucks are pretty much pedestrian in comparison, if that is the area you come from. Cycle World ran an R1 Yamaha against a Viper on the track. I think the Viper got a quicker lap time, but it started to go belly up after 3 seriously hard laps by a good driver. The commentary on the R1 was that a rider could ride to a track day, run hard all session long, and ride the bike home. Same engineering in the ZX10 (comparable to the R1) as in the KLX250. The 250 can take the pounding, especially considering the mild state of tune when compared to the motocrossers.
If you want proof of what Kawasaki apparently thinks of the capability of the KLX250, consider the red line is like 10,500 rpm, but the true horsepower peak is around 8600 rpm. They figure it's good for nearly 2000 rpm over rev. Plus it is based on the off road only KLX300R which people, like Larry Roseler, raced in some off road races that favor the smaller four stroke back in the "olden days".
When it comes to a temperature gauge, based on the history that virtually all dual sports and off road biked do not have temp gauges and theenduro and MX bikes seldom have fans, I put 50,000 miles on the 650 and several on the 250 and have yet to see the temp light. The 650 occasionally fired up the fan for a minute if I was at a standstill or turning around on some trail on a hot day, never had that yet with the 250 though. I'd spend the gauge money on suspension for what you're doing. The temp gauge would be a pricey likely never needed decoration where suspension work is a major benefit.
Of course this is all my opinion... only the last paragraph. The rest is pretty much the facts. I mean why would you let a weak engine over rev 2000 rpm? And how does the KLX compare to a 1968 BSA 250 in metallurgy and machining processes.
good info! thanks for your opinion, I think the proof of 10k rpm is actually a good observation as well as the fact the motorcycles are meant to be high performance machines.
...But you do see a lot of motors with thrown rod bearings, blown rings, blown gaskets ...etc. ( maybe poor maintenance ? ) or maybe its proof you can't ride too long and aggressively.
b/c ...although the capability of 10k rpm might say the motor is capable of higher torquing ability ... that doesn't mean it will be capable of doing this work for LONG periods of time. ( not saying it should be able to rev 10k rpm for 4 hours straight but maybe the smaller work adds up ? ) idk ...
I'm reaching about 25k and I believe the motor still has alot life ...I hope your'e right that it will last.
I plan to periodically changed rings, valves and seals ...and of course oil. I think that will def help.
actually the main reason y I bought a bike was to have something to work on and learn motor tuning...
...I still want a temp gauge just cuz I think its good to know.
Last edited by horror_fan; 12-08-2017 at 03:37 PM.
#6
12-08-2017, 05:02 PM
If you want a temperature gage, maybe consider a trail tech vapor or similar. I have mine set to measure coolant outflow from the engine with warning lights at something like 200F (yellow) and 212F (red). When the yellow starts blinking, I kick on the manual fan switch. Or, if I'm hitting a particularly long slow climb on a hot day, the fan will be kicked on sooner.
I think a temperature gage is a good idea.
And if you plan on running high rpm for extended time, maybe also consider an oil temp gage.
I think a temperature gage is a good idea.
And if you plan on running high rpm for extended time, maybe also consider an oil temp gage.
Last edited by IDRIDR; 12-08-2017 at 05:05 PM.
#7
12-08-2017, 05:29 PM
I worked in a bike shop for quite a long time and never saw that many blown engines due to anything other than running out of oil or ingesting a lot of dirt. Blown rings? Rings don't "blow". They can wear out due to dirt or they can break. Broken rods are far and few, usually related to drag racing, from what I saw in a small-medium size mid west shop. Blown gaskets - head gaskets - would be due to warpage and again never saw too many of those either. With all the bikes that passed through the service department there were only a hand full that actually broke. Most were worn out usually due to lack of adequate maintenance.
As for running hard for long periods, endurance racers run near red line for hours. The engineering that builds those sport bikes is also applied to those of the dual sports. And if any kind of racing stress test an engine I'd say the desert and off road racing that Roeseler rode would certainly be at the top of the list and be far tougher than anything you or I will do. Plus he was running built engines stressing the stock components even further. And that's with 300cc power, not 250.
By the way, an interesting side note. I rode a Honda Reflex 250 that has a tachometer. I was kind of amazed that the scooter driveline had the engine running around 6500-7000 rpm all the time and definitely when highway running. Seems a pedestrian scooter engine can run around all day long at near red line, so I don't see much issue with the KLX.
But why look for an excuse to tear apart your engine? Just do it. Adjust your valves, do the MCM, consider going flat slide carb, do a big bore. Have some fun.
As for running hard for long periods, endurance racers run near red line for hours. The engineering that builds those sport bikes is also applied to those of the dual sports. And if any kind of racing stress test an engine I'd say the desert and off road racing that Roeseler rode would certainly be at the top of the list and be far tougher than anything you or I will do. Plus he was running built engines stressing the stock components even further. And that's with 300cc power, not 250.
By the way, an interesting side note. I rode a Honda Reflex 250 that has a tachometer. I was kind of amazed that the scooter driveline had the engine running around 6500-7000 rpm all the time and definitely when highway running. Seems a pedestrian scooter engine can run around all day long at near red line, so I don't see much issue with the KLX.
But why look for an excuse to tear apart your engine? Just do it. Adjust your valves, do the MCM, consider going flat slide carb, do a big bore. Have some fun.
#8
12-08-2017, 10:27 PM
I worked in a bike shop for quite a long time and never saw that many blown engines due to anything other than running out of oil or ingesting a lot of dirt. Blown rings? Rings don't "blow". They can wear out due to dirt or they can break. Broken rods are far and few, usually related to drag racing, from what I saw in a small-medium size mid west shop. Blown gaskets - head gaskets - would be due to warpage and again never saw too many of those either. With all the bikes that passed through the service department there were only a hand full that actually broke. Most were worn out usually due to lack of adequate maintenance.
As for running hard for long periods, endurance racers run near red line for hours. The engineering that builds those sport bikes is also applied to those of the dual sports. And if any kind of racing stress test an engine I'd say the desert and off road racing that Roeseler rode would certainly be at the top of the list and be far tougher than anything you or I will do. Plus he was running built engines stressing the stock components even further. And that's with 300cc power, not 250.
By the way, an interesting side note. I rode a Honda Reflex 250 that has a tachometer. I was kind of amazed that the scooter driveline had the engine running around 6500-7000 rpm all the time and definitely when highway running. Seems a pedestrian scooter engine can run around all day long at near red line, so I don't see much issue with the KLX.
As for running hard for long periods, endurance racers run near red line for hours. The engineering that builds those sport bikes is also applied to those of the dual sports. And if any kind of racing stress test an engine I'd say the desert and off road racing that Roeseler rode would certainly be at the top of the list and be far tougher than anything you or I will do. Plus he was running built engines stressing the stock components even further. And that's with 300cc power, not 250.
By the way, an interesting side note. I rode a Honda Reflex 250 that has a tachometer. I was kind of amazed that the scooter driveline had the engine running around 6500-7000 rpm all the time and definitely when highway running. Seems a pedestrian scooter engine can run around all day long at near red line, so I don't see much issue with the KLX.
just meant "blown" like when people use the word "shot" ...not saying that the rings will explode in inside the cylinder.
I was making a guess that it may be common for people to have broken engine parts..I really don't know.
hopefully ur right about small engines just being strong ...but I guess its always good to keep good maintenance as well.
I agree
#9
12-08-2017, 10:29 PM
If you want a temperature gage, maybe consider a trail tech vapor or similar. I have mine set to measure coolant outflow from the engine with warning lights at something like 200F (yellow) and 212F (red). When the yellow starts blinking, I kick on the manual fan switch. Or, if I'm hitting a particularly long slow climb on a hot day, the fan will be kicked on sooner.
I think a temperature gage is a good idea.
And if you plan on running high rpm for extended time, maybe also consider an oil temp gage.
I think a temperature gage is a good idea.
And if you plan on running high rpm for extended time, maybe also consider an oil temp gage.
is that a brand ? "trail tech" ? ..ill look more into it.
how did you install a manual fan switch? does that disable the automatic fan sensor?
idk if I'm going to get an oil temp gauge... If I have a coolant temp gauge thats good enough + Im always going to assume the engine is hot af either way...
have you heard about KLX250s being able to add an oil cooler ?
#10
12-09-2017, 02:33 AM
I don't think what your talking about is really hard on the bike. I commute on mine everyday 40km @ 100kph, and do many road trips, spinning 7k for hours seems to have no effect. As for heat, I ride offroad in tight trails/sand and and have had the bikes fan turn on twice. my buddies WR250's fan runs almost non stop in the really nasty stuff, but the klx is seriously overcooled. and as far as "time" the engine is at full temp in minutes, fully temp soaked inside a half hour. once its hot, the "time" your body can sit on this thing isn't going to matter.
In short, don't worry. these engines make almost no power compared to a moto bike. and even the 300 there based on would make a lot more heat. keep good fresh oil in her, and rider er like ya stole er. She likes it that way.
In short, don't worry. these engines make almost no power compared to a moto bike. and even the 300 there based on would make a lot more heat. keep good fresh oil in her, and rider er like ya stole er. She likes it that way.
Last edited by Matt88-8; 12-09-2017 at 02:36 AM.