hmf slip on versus muzzy/big gun?
#4
10-10-2006 | 05:45 PM
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Posts: 7,269
RE: hmf slip on versus muzzy/big gun?
Yeah, I'd like to know too. I doubt it would be much more if any. I noticed most of my gain when I did the carb jetting, air box, opening the crank vent, and drilled the stock pipe. I did that a few months before installing the Muzzy and while I think adding the Muzzy was still an improvement w/regard to power, it was nowhere near as much as what the original jetting mods gave. So I think most of the power is coming from opening up the air flow in and out and tuning the carb. What actual pipe you use I think will make a much smaller difference, as least based on my experience. Note that I don't typically ride in the high RPM range so I'm gaging this based on low end power, i.e., no-clutch wheelieability - the various pipes may make a more dramatic difference in the higher RPM ranges.
There was a fellow here a few months back that was going to get some dyno runs - too bad that didn't happen. I think he was doing web work for a shop in exchange for tuning his bike or something like that.
There was a fellow here a few months back that was going to get some dyno runs - too bad that didn't happen. I think he was doing web work for a shop in exchange for tuning his bike or something like that.
#5
10-10-2006 | 05:53 PM
Da dirty moderator
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 12,584
From: Pittsburgh, PA
RE: hmf slip on versus muzzy/big gun?
noooo big gun is the best, cause i said so! lol.... j/k... id imagine full exhausts are all real close in power gains... and even sound, i think its all looks after that, but the slip on is another story because the stock header... probably a little less power gain, and close sound... just my guesses...
#6
10-10-2006 | 05:58 PM
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RE: hmf slip on versus muzzy/big gun?
Are you talking about an HMF full system? I was just wondering because on the KLX 250/300 it's not really the muffler that plugs up the bike, it's the stock header because it is so small in diameter. The 300 muffler with the tip removed I've heard makes real good power and most with the 300 leave it on and just change out the header after tip removal. The 250 muffler otoh is a boat anchor and needs replaced because of the catalytic converter and it's weight. Now I'm not gonna sit here and preach as that's been beaten to death but I would put money on my BigGun making more power than just an FMF slip-on any day simply because of the increased diameter of the header pipe. I did the pipe first without any other mod and I can tell you that it made a huge increase in power. I later jetted and did the other free mods, all of them and really didn't feel much more if any sans better throttle response, after doing the pipe swap. The next noticeable mod was the Uni-filter as it added some low end power. The thing I love about my bike is that it will rev to redline any time with no problem and the throttle response is immediate especially for being a CV carb. I don't think I'd swap it for a pumper simply because I ride my bike on the street also if not more than the dirt sadly and I like the smooth acceleration it provides and the simplicity of tuning it. The sweet spot on my bike is around 7-8 grand. I can't wait to get the 300 kit in next year. Weighing in at around 150 lbs, I think the 300 kit will satisfy my non MX bike expectations of the old tech KLX.
#7
10-10-2006 | 06:55 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,106
From: Misawa Japan
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RE: hmf slip on versus muzzy/big gun?
ORIGINAL: Iowaguy
Are you talking about an HMF full system? I was just wondering because on the KLX 250/300 it's not really the muffler that plugs up the bike, it's the stock header because it is so small in diameter. The 300 muffler with the tip removed I've heard makes real good power and most with the 300 leave it on and just change out the header after tip removal. The 250 muffler otoh is a boat anchor and needs replaced because of the catalytic converter and it's weight. Now I'm not gonna sit here and preach as that's been beaten to death but I would put money on my BigGun making more power than just an FMF slip-on any day simply because of the increased diameter of the header pipe. I did the pipe first without any other mod and I can tell you that it made a huge increase in power. I later jetted and did the other free mods, all of them and really didn't feel much more if any sans better throttle response, after doing the pipe swap. The next noticeable mod was the Uni-filter as it added some low end power. The thing I love about my bike is that it will rev to redline any time with no problem and the throttle response is immediate especially for being a CV carb. I don't think I'd swap it for a pumper simply because I ride my bike on the street also if not more than the dirt sadly and I like the smooth acceleration it provides and the simplicity of tuning it. The sweet spot on my bike is around 7-8 grand. I can't wait to get the 300 kit in next year. Weighing in at around 150 lbs, I think the 300 kit will satisfy my non MX bike expectations of the old tech KLX.
Are you talking about an HMF full system? I was just wondering because on the KLX 250/300 it's not really the muffler that plugs up the bike, it's the stock header because it is so small in diameter. The 300 muffler with the tip removed I've heard makes real good power and most with the 300 leave it on and just change out the header after tip removal. The 250 muffler otoh is a boat anchor and needs replaced because of the catalytic converter and it's weight. Now I'm not gonna sit here and preach as that's been beaten to death but I would put money on my BigGun making more power than just an FMF slip-on any day simply because of the increased diameter of the header pipe. I did the pipe first without any other mod and I can tell you that it made a huge increase in power. I later jetted and did the other free mods, all of them and really didn't feel much more if any sans better throttle response, after doing the pipe swap. The next noticeable mod was the Uni-filter as it added some low end power. The thing I love about my bike is that it will rev to redline any time with no problem and the throttle response is immediate especially for being a CV carb. I don't think I'd swap it for a pumper simply because I ride my bike on the street also if not more than the dirt sadly and I like the smooth acceleration it provides and the simplicity of tuning it. The sweet spot on my bike is around 7-8 grand. I can't wait to get the 300 kit in next year. Weighing in at around 150 lbs, I think the 300 kit will satisfy my non MX bike expectations of the old tech KLX.
It's interesting how almost everyone has at least a slighty different impression of the mods and what had the largest impact. I'm anxious to rip into mine, but that won't happen until December, since I have no garage at home and sunny days were made for riding. My boss lets us keep our bikes in the garage at our workplace during the snowy months, so I'll set-up shop there.
I've had the same thoughts about keeping the CVK, but other times I'd like to loft the front wheel a bit easier. Still, that's a big chunk of change just to improve throttle response, profound as the difference might be. An added bonus with the Japanese domestic version of the CVK is carb deicing; I wouldn't be happy in this climate without it. I've heard from some people that pumpers have no icing issues, but that doesn't sound right to me.
As far as the HMF vs Muzzy issue goes, i would assume the HMF allows you to keep most of the stock version's low end torque while still giving a decent mid to high end power increase. I would think that the Muzzy might give you a bit more on the top end due to its larger diameter head pipe. The HMF slip-on (they don't offer a full system) got off to an impressive start, but it seems they have some sort of hold-up with going into full production. When their technician completed testing in late May, he said they would start production in mid-June. Here it is October and they don't even have the KLX pipe listed on their website as one of their products. You have to dig through the HMF forum just get any info. It doesn't seem like they are in any hurry to start cranking the things out. I think their primary focus is on ATV's anyhow.
That's what finally made me decide in favor of Staintune, who has offered the KLX exhaust for quite some time. You pay a bit more but I personally like the high quality stainless steel used throughout and the fact that you never need to re-pack the silencer. It's available as a slip-on or you can order the slip-on together with their large bore header. I might run my bike with the slip-on first, then install the header just to feel the difference.
#8
10-10-2006 | 07:53 PM
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Posts: n/a
RE: hmf slip on versus muzzy/big gun?
Just fyi, if you go with any stainless system you are going to have your header pipe discolor either blue or gold. I personally do not like that and one of the reasons I went with BigGun. Maybe you've heard me say this before but it is ceramic coated and in turn will stay new looking and maintain itself. Also, I believe pro-circuit makes a slip-on or even a full system and their products kick *** but a little pricey compared to Muzzy/BG. For all you guys who called me a BigGun rep or whatever screw ya. I'm just giving heads up to a potential buyer and trying to provide some valuable information to help him determine what pipe to buy.
#10
10-10-2006 | 09:40 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 287
From: Wisconsin
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RE: hmf slip on versus muzzy/big gun?
Well: It seems I'm the only one on the site thats has the HMF Slip-On exhaust
As I said before, I am extremely happy with my decision. It looks, sounds and performs well.
Iv'e been beat to death here by certain members but really don'y care cuase I KNOW IT WORKS.
HMF is the ONLY supplier who posts the performace of thier product, posts step by step jetting information, and has an active web site. And yes HMF replies almost instantly.
To IOWAGUY's comment about headpipe size, maybe at 10.5K rpm the HP may be 1HP more. When the OE Head pipe has the flange mod done, it works great. But for the real world application the OE head pipe will retain mid-range TQ. If you don't belive me, do your thermodynamics math.
To Tremor38's comment, you are correct about the power delivery between the systems. I waited about 4 weeks to get my exhaust from HMF, but I must say they were very good about it. I recieved a 20% discount, free shipping and a T-shirt. Ya I know it's not much but at least they recognize the issue and deal with it. Not like all the stories posted about the others. HMF builds to order, so who ever is in front of you , thats the schedule, no changing it. HMF said the KLX250s will be added in the next site revision. From what I gather they can't keep up with orders in general for all product, which is a good problem for them but can be a bad issue from the cutomer side.
So: in closing I like the HMF Slip-On exhaust, and those of you who are interested please ask more questions. And those of you who own the others, I hope your as happy with your purchase as I am.
Ride Safe!
As I said before, I am extremely happy with my decision. It looks, sounds and performs well.
Iv'e been beat to death here by certain members but really don'y care cuase I KNOW IT WORKS.
HMF is the ONLY supplier who posts the performace of thier product, posts step by step jetting information, and has an active web site. And yes HMF replies almost instantly.
To IOWAGUY's comment about headpipe size, maybe at 10.5K rpm the HP may be 1HP more. When the OE Head pipe has the flange mod done, it works great. But for the real world application the OE head pipe will retain mid-range TQ. If you don't belive me, do your thermodynamics math.
To Tremor38's comment, you are correct about the power delivery between the systems. I waited about 4 weeks to get my exhaust from HMF, but I must say they were very good about it. I recieved a 20% discount, free shipping and a T-shirt. Ya I know it's not much but at least they recognize the issue and deal with it. Not like all the stories posted about the others. HMF builds to order, so who ever is in front of you , thats the schedule, no changing it. HMF said the KLX250s will be added in the next site revision. From what I gather they can't keep up with orders in general for all product, which is a good problem for them but can be a bad issue from the cutomer side.
So: in closing I like the HMF Slip-On exhaust, and those of you who are interested please ask more questions. And those of you who own the others, I hope your as happy with your purchase as I am.
Ride Safe!