Hard start fix?

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Old 10-06-2008, 11:39 PM
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Default Hard start fix?

When my bike sits for a while, like many others, it is hard to start. Try putting your hand over the exhaust outlet for a few cranks when starting. Works every time for me, although I have not tried this when it's cold out. I actually stumbled across this when mine wouldn't start. I covered the exhaust and it fired right up!
 
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Old 10-07-2008, 12:56 AM
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I've never had trouble starting mine with the choke. It almost never fires without the choke, but pull it out and it fires the first time it turns over. Coldest I've tried to start it was ~50 degrees, I'll be curious as to how it does when it gets colder, especially as rich as it is.
 
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Old 10-07-2008, 01:09 AM
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This is the original thread for hard starts. https://www.kawasakiforums.com/m_96672/tm.htm

Here is the basic information.

Shut down procedure.

1. After riding as you are pulling into your driveway, or to speed things up you can do this a block from your house, turn off the gas.
2. Let the bike run until it actually dies from gas starvation, (this may take 2-5 minutes) But that's ok it will give you time to put away your gear.
3. Park it and now you're ready for the next time you ride whether that be in a day, or a month.

Start up procedure.

1. Turn on the gas
2. Wait for 10 seconds
3. Start the bike as you always do

Now I know some of you are asking why not just drain the bowl and then you can start the bike. Well there are two reasons. It it harder to drain the bowl by hand than to let the bike do this as it runs out of gas, and by running the gas out using the motor, it assures that all of the small areas that would otherwise still have this junk they call fuel will be empty, ready for fresh, (fresher) gas to get in and do its job. Now all of that being said, I came up to work yesterday to let my son ride the moped up on the lawn and I cranked on the bike for a few minutes, and then I thought I wonder if I can drain the bowl and do the "after thought" procedure to get this thing going? Well I drained the bowl, turned the gas back on and two kicks and it was running. Keep in mind that the moped is a two stroke, and it has been sitting up at work in a mechanical room for about 2 months. So either way, whether running the gas out using the motor so you are ready to go next time (which I think is faster and more efficient) or you drain the bowl using the screw at the bottom of the carb, the results are the same, you get your bike started.

And I even guess some people would say that this is a hassle, but I gotta tell you that cranking on a bike for 5 minutes off and on only to run the battery down and still have not started the bike is way more of a hassle than a little time taken to get ready for the next ride. This last summer I rode my bike everyday for about 3 months, and it always started right up, but there are a couple of reasons. one it was warmer out, cold weather affects fuels in a negative way, and more importantly by riding the bike everyday I had gas in the bowl that didn't have enough time to "change". Next summer I will probably go back to leaving the gas on and not draining the bowl. but on the wife's bike the procedure will always be to run it out of gas since she doesn't ride as often as I do.
 
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Old 10-07-2008, 04:32 AM
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If someone wants to try what I said, I would love the feedback on this. If I use it often I don't have to cover the pipe. If my bike sits and won't start in 5 seconds, I put my palm over the exhaust and it fires right up. Let's hear if this works for anyone else.
 
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Old 10-07-2008, 12:36 PM
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Some of the things you all wrote on starting fixes don't make sense, like shutting the petcock and running the bike out of fuel. It is possible that when you run the fuel out, you dislodge a bit of fuzz blocking the pilot jet? Also, if you have a bad fleat needle, it'll prevent flooding by shutting off the fuel and not running it out. But bad float needles are so rare on Keihins.

I had the no-start problem once on my KLX one morning. Sucker would not start for anything. Then suddenly it did, and thereafter zero problems. Cold engine: pull choke out fully start with no throttle and BAM!

Unknown by most is there are differences in summer and winter fuels regarding their volatility (ease of evaporation and ignition). Summer fuels are supplies to hot, low-altitude areas to reduce evaporation potential. After a sudden cold turn in the weather, a bike sitting with summer fuel may be harder to start.

These days a new factor is the presence of ethanol in the fuel many places. The politics of ethanol will ensure we are going to have to deal with it from now on. E10 or 10% ethanol is not so noticeable in a bike, but it comes with new considerations, especially regarding water.

I'm doing research on ethanol in gasoline for a moto magazine article and finding some very interesting things. Ethanol is not gasoline and it has some negatives, like being a strong solvent and loving to recombine with water that was stripped away in processing. I live on a ranch and have a lot of equipment that sits unused for months. E10 has causing me a lot of problems because it goes bad quicker than straight gasoline, especially if you have any moisture around, or some already in the tank unawares. Watch out for that first tank of E10 in old equipement! That ethanol will scour any crap in the tank and combine with the water - up to a point - then it will 'phase separate' out into a variety of weird floaties that will clog fuel screens and worst of all, may plug a pilot jet. When this happens dump some fuel and look at it. If it is yellowed and has floaties, you'll need to get rid of all of it, including flushing the tank.

I clogged the fuel screen and water separator on a welder generator several times thinking it was just a little crap. The whol gallon was full of snotty strings and black bits! Fuel screeens are easy. You don't want the suff making it past the first lines of defence to get in the carb and clog a pilot jet. A bike with a plugged pilot jet won't want to start, then it will require the choke to remain on to even idle. Some say carb cleaners or Sea Foam will fix that situation. Maybe.

Now if you've got some miles on your bike, the valve clearance going to zero will have these exact same symptoms. Dealers make money on hoople heads paying hundreds to have their 'carbs cleaned' (the ethanol will do that for you), when what was really needed was a 10,000 mile valve adjustment. Not to say you might not have crap in the float bowl, just be aware that with some miles, zero valve lash is a possibility. I had to learn that lesson the hard way with a Super Sherpa with 11,000 miles. Go into the carb twice before smacking my forehead.

Rejetting described in this thread can help, but usually more regarding the main jet, though a slightly richer pilot might as well (I don't know the KLX jetting that well yet). Usually on these Keihin CVK carbs, liberating (getting rid of the cap blocking) the fuel screw allows plenty of range to enrich the low speed without changing the pilot jet.

Other things that help are using real foam filter oils on filters. Motor oil gets pulled down by gravity, and a dry filter just might as well not even be there. Real filter oil will stay and it will increase the ventury pressure differential slightly.

And if you pull the plug and find it dark or black, put in a D7EA the next time. That's only one step hotter, but it helps keep the ceramic clean when you get to operating temp.

Hope this helps.
 
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Old 10-07-2008, 12:51 PM
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Interesting.
You seem to know quite a bit about fuel and it's effects.

But, this klx is the only vehicle I have ever known to show these specific symptoms.
And the fix seems to be run the fuel out of the bowl before shutting it down.
Doesn't seem to matter how old the fuel in the tank gets, just the bowl.
The "normal" mods seem to have some effect but don't cure it completely.

It's kinda weird.
I would like someone to come up with a logical, provable solution.
So I can get some sleep.
 
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Old 10-07-2008, 02:08 PM
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My bike can sit for 6 hours or for 6 days, and all I have to do is pull the choke, and it fires the first time the starter turns it over. Maybe I'm just lucky. IMHO, if you cover your bike or keep it in a (modestly) temp-controlled garage, I have my doubts about the fuel going bad in a matter of days while sitting in the bowl... I cut the petcock off as soon as I get off, and I start it as soon as (or right before) I turn the gas back on.

Neat information that you've brought to us, Einfarht. Definate +1 for you. OH wait, we don't do that here
 
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Old 10-07-2008, 02:22 PM
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Mine starts first time every time, even when it's out of gas. Magic.
 
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Old 10-07-2008, 02:31 PM
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As long as something works, it doesn't necessarily have to make sense. Its not just a coincidence, I have tried it on many bikes in different situations and temps. Its 100% fool proof. Oh and putting my hand over the exhaust never resulted in helping at all.
 
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Old 10-07-2008, 02:32 PM
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Just to add, you don't have to run all of the gas out, just as long as it allows enough fresh gas in to compensate for whatever is happening to the gas remaining in the bowl.
 


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