Fork oil question

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  #11  
Old 03-07-2010 | 04:46 AM
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Thanks the shock guy in my area said as much.
 
  #12  
Old 03-07-2010 | 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Brewster
If the KLX300 had some real valving in the stock forks, I'd agree with ya. But, 3 shims and a light spring isn't what I'd call adequate valving. Plus, if the original poster is going to .46 springs, he's carrying some weight.

Ride on
Brewster
Yeah, there's not much in the OEM shim stack. John at Moto Pro told me that the piston was the main culprit in the KLX fork. The Gold Valve mod totally transformed mine...along with a few extra shims.
 
  #13  
Old 03-07-2010 | 05:53 AM
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Now we are talking money....
 
  #14  
Old 03-07-2010 | 12:57 PM
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redpillar, your link didn't work for me, so I'm n ot sure what it said, but I'll tell you that you should DEFINITELY put a spacer in those forks. While the proper solution is always the right springs, what you have now is far more wrong than not using a spacer. The stock springs are far too light if you think you need .46, and a .75"-1" spacer will preload the front end and add some stiffness you desperately need. Don't believe it? You have nothing to lose if it doesn't work (and trust me, it does). If you found the rear suspension to be a little soft, would you not tighten up the preload nut a little bit? A spacer in the fork is no different, and there is no reason not to do it.

As for the oil, you don't say which 10W you have.
SAE numbers are not really all that suitable for suspension fluid, and are not always a good indication of the reall weight, and how it will work. I have 3W oil in my shop that is heavier than 5W.
 
  #15  
Old 03-07-2010 | 01:04 PM
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  #16  
Old 03-07-2010 | 04:25 PM
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This is what wiki had to say,

Pre-load adjustment
Motorcycle suspensions are designed so that the springs are always under compression, even when fully extended. Pre-load is used to adjust the initial position of the suspension with the weight of the motorcycle and rider acting on it. Both the front forks and the rear shock or shocks can be adjusted for pre-load on most modern motorcycles.
The difference between the fully extended length of the suspension and the length compressed by the weight of the motorcycle and rider is called "total sag". Total sag is set to optimize the initial position of the suspension to avoid "bottoming out" or "topping out" under normal riding conditions. "Bottoming out" occurs when the suspension is compressed to the point where it mechanically cannot compress any more. "Topping out" occurs when the suspension extends fully and cannot mechanically extend any more. Increasing pre-load increases the initial force on the spring thereby reducing total sag. Decreasing pre-load decreases the initial force in the spring thereby increasing total sag.
Since the weight of the motorcycle and rider are the only forces compressing the suspension from the fully extended position, preload doesn't change the forces on the springs under riding conditions. Changing the pre-load does not change the way the suspension reacts to bumps or dips in the road surface either. Two simple examples using the motorcycle's forks shows why:
Suppose that the bike and rider put a total weight on the front suspension of 300 lb. Suppose the spring rate of each fork spring is 50 lb per inch. Installing a 1 inch long spacer in each fork leg gives a pre-load of 50 lb per spring, a total of 100 lb. When the weight of the rider and motorcycle are loaded onto the suspension it will compress 2 inch from full extension (2 inches total sag). Now the force exerted on (and by) each fork spring is 150 lb (1 inch pre-load + 2 inch total sag = 3 inch total spring compression) for a total of 300 lb, balancing the weight of the bike and rider.
Suppose we now install a 2 inch long spacer in each fork leg. The pre-load is now 100 lb per spring, a total of 200 lb. The total sag will change since we still have the same 300 lb loading the forks. The total sag will now be 1 inch. The total force on each spring is the same as before, 150 lb on each fork spring for a total of 300 lb force. The front suspension's initial position is 1 inch longer than in the preceding example (1 inch less total sag).
Since the forces are the same in both examples the reaction of the suspension to bumps and dips in the road will be the same. The difference is that there is less chance of topping out in example 1, less chance of bottoming out in example 2. Motorcycle manufacturers generally provide optimal total sag settings.
This is also why too-soft springs cannot be "fixed" by adding pre-load, too-stiff springs cannot be "fixed" by reducing pre-load. Changing to springs of the correct spring constant for the total weight of the bike and rider is the only solution.
Some motorcycles have externally accessible pre-load adjustments. Typically, this is a screw-type adjustment that moves a backing plate inside the fork against the top of the fork spring. The farther down the adjuster is screwed, the higher the preload.
A few motorcycles allow adjustment of pre-load by changing the air pressure inside the forks. Valves at the top of the forks allow air to be added or released from the fork.[2] More air pressure gives more preload, and vice versa.
Pre-load on bikes without adjusters can be changed by disassembling the fork and changing the length of the spacer between the top of the fork spring and the fork cap. Spacers can be installed under the rear shock springs similarly. A longer spacer gives higher preload, and vice-versa.
 
  #17  
Old 03-07-2010 | 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by zomby woof
redpillar, your link didn't work for me, so I'm n ot sure what it said, but I'll tell you that you should DEFINITELY put a spacer in those forks. While the proper solution is always the right springs, what you have now is far more wrong than not using a spacer. The stock springs are far too light if you think you need .46, and a .75"-1" spacer will preload the front end and add some stiffness you desperately need. Don't believe it? You have nothing to lose if it doesn't work (and trust me, it does). If you found the rear suspension to be a little soft, would you not tighten up the preload nut a little bit? A spacer in the fork is no different, and there is no reason not to do it.

As for the oil, you don't say which 10W you have.
SAE numbers are not really all that suitable for suspension fluid, and are not always a good indication of the reall weight, and how it will work. I have 3W oil in my shop that is heavier than 5W.
Spot on re. the "viscosity" rating issue. When I talked to John (owner) at Moto-Pro he said the same thing and why he flow tests/documents the suspension fluids he uses to insure consistency.

That was news to me, I assumed the viscosity specified was at least close to reality ... yes, maybe, not ... brand/lot dependent.
 
  #18  
Old 03-07-2010 | 10:57 PM
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Interesting...the plot becomes more viscous!!!
I am definately going to buy the springs. I don't really want to spend a bunch more money on this bike. So the valving is not gonna happen.
Thanks for all the input.
 
  #19  
Old 03-08-2010 | 01:04 PM
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Bonus link to deal with the viscosity issue. The chart has most of the popular oils.
http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/lowspeed.htm
 
  #20  
Old 03-08-2010 | 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by zomby woof
Bonus link to deal with the viscosity issue. The chart has most of the popular oils.
http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/lowspeed.htm
Yep, I've kept a copy of that list or similar on my workbench for some time. It really helps when deciding on what fork oil to use to get a subtle difference.
 
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