Everything cuts on start

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Old 03-10-2016 | 03:30 AM
Dash8's Avatar
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Default Everything cuts on start

Ok, let me try to explain this...

Last year, with original battery, if I stalled it, would be tough to re-start (have a new lithium battery now) and everything (lights, dash, etc) would cut out and then flick back on... Would get her to start after a few tries (hot starts)

Tonight, I stalled it and the first 2 hits of the starter button did nothing (remember new lithium battery). Everything flashed off, then third hit of starter she fired right up...but it was like starter did not even engage, all power flashed off, then on, and it was fine...

Anyone?
 
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Old 03-10-2016 | 12:36 PM
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Sounds like a loose connection or the infamous ground issue. Not kick stand switch or clutch switch as all power would not be cut. Some others can chime in about the ground as I can't remember where to find it, maybe frequently asked questions??? Good luck. PS what are you doing up @ 4:30 AM, early flight this AM?
 
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Old 03-10-2016 | 12:41 PM
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Old 03-10-2016 | 01:05 PM
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Yes, I am still having the same problem. I **think** it is the starter solenoid. If you follow the power wire from the battery you'd see it goes to the solenoid. There is the relay to the starter and the distribution block to the switched power. I keep "curing" my problem only to have it come back. I hate intermittent electrical faults. It makes toruble shooting impossible.

My battery reads 12.8 or some such, when I get it running it reads 12.8 to mid/high 13s, so it's charging fine.

My bike does the same thing, it clicks when starting, the lights flicker. If you jump it the bike starts and runs OK. Sometimes when you turn the key, nothing, sometimes the neutral light is dim, sometimes bright but it flickers. I think there is a problem with the selenoid.

I jumped the starter by passing a wire from he + post on the battery directly to the starter, the bike started and ran.

I jumped the relay by taking a wrench and connecting the posts on the relay, and the bike didn't start and it cut power to the instrument panel, as if I had tried to start it with the key.

I think there is some kind of internal fault int he relay/starter solenoid. Jumping the bike gives it enough power to overcome this by doubling the amps available. Bypassing the solenoid completely bypasses the problem entirely.

The bad news is solenoids are not cheap. $80+ at my dealer and online. The good news is you can get used ones on eBay for not much money, around $20 all in.

I am going to try testing my solenoid with a multimeter tonight, but I have already ordered one from eBay. I think all years are compatible.
 
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Old 03-10-2016 | 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ITHAPPENS
Sounds like a loose connection or the infamous ground issue. Not kick stand switch or clutch switch as all power would not be cut. Some others can chime in about the ground as I can't remember where to find it, maybe frequently asked questions??? Good luck. PS what are you doing up @ 4:30 AM, early flight this AM?
Lol nope, cranky 1 year old, even worse!! He decided that sleeping was not a priority
 
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Old 03-10-2016 | 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by taxonomy
Yes, I am still having the same problem. I **think** it is the starter solenoid. If you follow the power wire from the battery you'd see it goes to the solenoid. There is the relay to the starter and the distribution block to the switched power. I keep "curing" my problem only to have it come back. I hate intermittent electrical faults. It makes toruble shooting impossible.

My battery reads 12.8 or some such, when I get it running it reads 12.8 to mid/high 13s, so it's charging fine.

My bike does the same thing, it clicks when starting, the lights flicker. If you jump it the bike starts and runs OK. Sometimes when you turn the key, nothing, sometimes the neutral light is dim, sometimes bright but it flickers. I think there is a problem with the selenoid.

I jumped the starter by passing a wire from he + post on the battery directly to the starter, the bike started and ran.

I jumped the relay by taking a wrench and connecting the posts on the relay, and the bike didn't start and it cut power to the instrument panel, as if I had tried to start it with the key.

I think there is some kind of internal fault int he relay/starter solenoid. Jumping the bike gives it enough power to overcome this by doubling the amps available. Bypassing the solenoid completely bypasses the problem entirely.

The bad news is solenoids are not cheap. $80+ at my dealer and online. The good news is you can get used ones on eBay for not much money, around $20 all in.

I am going to try testing my solenoid with a multimeter tonight, but I have already ordered one from eBay. I think all years are compatible.
Interesting.... mine only seems to do what I described from a hot restart. Starting from cold seems ok.

It does not click or anything... I was rolling last night with clutch in (after it stalled) and that's when everything cut for a sec. .. almost seemed like it reset itself... then came back and started with half a crank. I'll check out solenoid today

Maybe she's an transformer
 
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Old 03-10-2016 | 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Dash8
Interesting.... mine only seems to do what I described from a hot restart. Starting from cold seems ok.
This is the problem with itnermittent faults. It can *seem* like it two things are related when they are not. On my bike I think the solenoid is faulting at random. If it works twice randomly, when the bike is cold then it seems like cold starts are not the problem. But really, it's just random. Without a huge sample it's impossible to know.

Look at it this way, all power has to pass through that relay, but it only has to do so before the bike is running, after that power passes through the RR. It's suspect.

Hopefully, I will have a new solenoid here before Saturday.

I have read every internet post on the subject I could find, anther possiblity is a ground fault somehwere further down the line. I hope it's the $20 relay.
 
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Old 03-10-2016 | 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by taxonomy
This is the problem with itnermittent faults. It can *seem* like it two things are related when they are not. On my bike I think the solenoid is faulting at random. If it works twice randomly, when the bike is cold then it seems like cold starts are not the problem. But really, it's just random. Without a huge sample it's impossible to know.

Look at it this way, all power has to pass through that relay, but it only has to do so before the bike is running, after that power passes through the RR. It's suspect.

Hopefully, I will have a new solenoid here before Saturday.

I have read every internet post on the subject I could find, anther possiblity is a ground fault somehwere further down the line. I hope it's the $20 relay.
I see your point. Will that solenoid cause all power to shut down? I.e. Dash gauge and headlight shut of for a second? My dash also resets ( like when you first turn on bike)
 
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Old 03-10-2016 | 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Dash8
I see your point. Will that solenoid cause all power to shut down? I.e. Dash gauge and headlight shut of for a second? My dash also resets ( like when you first turn on bike)
Before the bike is running

Battery>Solenoid>Everything else.

The solenoid is the choke point. In this case it's really two relays, one switched by the key, to deliver power to all systems that are not the starter. These would include the coil, lights, gauges and whatnot and the starter. There is a second relay switched by the starter button to deliver power to the starter. I think both relays share a common ground, so this could be it, but I really do not know.

So, yes, it will cause everthing to sut down, dash included. My tail light also flickers.

Once the bike is running power come from the stator>regulator>everything else.

So, as the bike behaves normally when running, and starts normally if you bypass the solenoid I think it's the solenoid.

Try jumping the solenoid by taking a 15mm wrench and touching both screws. My guess is that it cuts out due to faulting in some way. Next try jumping the solenoid by passing a heavy wire directly from the battery + terminal to where the wire from the relay connects to the starter motor. It's easy to do with by connecting a jumper cable to the + terminal and then clamping the other end of the cable to a screwdriver and touching the post with that. You will have to move the little boot atop the starter motor.

My guess is it starts and runs normal.
 

Last edited by taxonomy; 03-10-2016 at 02:33 PM.
  #10  
Old 03-10-2016 | 10:52 PM
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Do you lose power only when you hit the starter button?
Here's how I solved my non-starting issue, which was salt water corroding plugs and blowing my main fuse(obviously a little different than your problem).
My process started at the back where I thought the problem was and kept moving forward looking for the issue.
I ended up doing the whole bike on the side of the road. Luckily I had just tossed a pack of 25 20A fuses in the tank bag. I think I used 8 until I solved all the problems. It's also just a good maintenance practice for a bike that lives in a climate with massive temp swings around the dew point.
Make sure your battery leads are tight.
Check the plug connectors at the solenoid.
Clean all your grounds and plugs, making sure they're plugged in completely, before and after inspection.
Dielectric grease all plugs.

Have you tested the battery? It's acting kind of like a bike with a bad battery.
 


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