Now there we go! Some speculation!

Thanks for the posts. Having read them, the first reaction of somebody really out of touch with the bike scene:

I'm going to start with guessing that bike dealers are seeing dual sport bikes flying out the door these days due to a combination of interest in them from the general population, and skyrocketing gas prices. It would follow from that, that if economy is becoming an increasing factor in the decision to purchase of a dual sport, then there are the two issues of purchase price along with operating costs. So the manufacturers will include, along with all their other money related calculations, the cost FI adds to the purchase price of the bike along with the marketing point of reduced fuel costs by having FI - and to a lesser extent the extended range that gives the bike in stock trim. I doubt very many serious dual sport riders pay a whole lot of attention to what kind of milage they get as far as their fuel expenses go, but most of these kind of bikes probably go to ordinary folks that mostly just ride them down to the 7-11, to work every day, a few little putts up a forest service road once in a while, etc.

From my very brief look at what was available in the 250 cc dual sport scene, I came away from the impression that Yamaha and Kawasaki are each other's main competitors in this price range for this kind of bike. There's about $1000 difference in the MSRP of the two bikes (thinking of the '09 KLX250S vs the 08 WR250R here). Joe Average walks off the street thinking "light little dual sport", and sees two bikes with fairly similar physical dimensions, weights, tires, fuel capacity, etc. Relating to FI, ignoring for the moment that they are two different engines, what does the prospective buyer hear from the dealerships? A quick snoop around the 'net came up with about 25 rear wheel HP for the Yammi, versus about... 18?... for the Kawi. Modifying the stock exhaust and air box on the Yammi supposedly results in just under 30 rear wheel horsepower, didn't find anything on what un-strangling the stock Kawi components gives for an improvement. But I doubt it will give anything remotely like the FI'd Yammi is getting. And in my brief search I couldn't find any reports from riders on milage/range on their 2008 WR250R's, so no comparison available on that.

So... do you think the Yammi salesman is going to tell Joe Average that his 250 has about 30% more horsepower than the Kawi as they sit on the dealership floor? And the same advantage even when you start unstrangling the stock components? I suspect he will. Will he also be pointing out better gas milage/longer legs with the stock gas tanks which are about the same size? Again, if that advantage is there, I suspect he will. Wouldn't you if you were selling Yamaha's - or if you were selling Suzuki's and that advantage was in Suzuki's favour?

At this point (assuming I'm not right out to lunch so far), what do I do if I'm Kawasaki? Do I say "Screw it - right now we can sell all the KLX250s's that we can put on the dealership floor anyways, and most of the people buying these kind of bikes will never notice the difference"? Or do I take the long view that a new generation of riders are going to become fans of another brand? And that some of my current riders will switch ships? And that lost sales are lost sales? And that the bike industry, online forums, etc are going to underline the disparity between the two bikes, to the detriment of the brand in general?

I can't even guess at the answer to that one. I have to compete every week in my business to keep my existing customers and get the new ones as they appear on the horizon, so from my point of view I'd never want to be relying on what I did was already working, or I already had lots of billable hours, etc. But a snippet I stumbled over in M/C trade related news:

[blockquote]Despite the motorcycle industry as a whole showing a downturn in sales, dual purpose motorcycle sales continue to grow. Indeed, growth in this category has been nearly 100% in the last five years, far outstripping the overall industry average. Other statistics shown at the intro indicate the average dual purpose rider is 44 years old, and that a majority of riders shopping in this category favor high tech features (such as modern engine and chassis design) and express some dissatisfaction with component quality found on dual purpose bikes, in general.
[/blockquote]But I'd still like to know what difference FI makes on the KLXS's that they're selling in Japan, even with whatever other differences there are in the setup of the bikes. Somebody else can find that - I gotta get back to work and get some billable hours in here.

 

Tremor, you out there? This one looks right up your alley...

 

only thing the new WR has over the new KLX is a few ponies. the WR lacks several of the features the new '09 KLX has, including a low seat height and a grand less asking price, make it $1200 as I got $200 off the msrp on my '09. the yami dealer wouldn't budge off msrp when I asked them about it, and they had two sitting on the floor. call any kawi dealer about the new '09, you'll be hard-pressed to find any available. the new '09 KX JUST got fi, you think the KLX will get it next year? I don't think so.

 

The EFImodel KLX puts out 2rwhp more theprevious year's model (CVK). TheYammiestill has it beat in the HP department. The Yammie'soff idle throttle response is very abrupt/sudden whereas the KLXhasa smooth delivery.

I had enoughspace to do a WOT acceleration through the first two gears on both bikes. TheKLX wasfairly linear in comparison to the Yammie, which had moreof a pronounced mid-range rush, then tapered as the revs climbed further.

I liked thesuspension on bothbikes.The WR was a bit firmer..it felt prettyclose to race ready out of the box. The KLX was plush in comparision, but much firmer thentheprevious year's model.

The aftermarket support for the WR is already building a head of steam wheras goodies for the KLX seem to be developing at a crawl or not at all. There is already a power commander available for the WR, but not for the KLX.

EFI isn't this magical self adjusting wonder that many people think it is. Especiallywhen it comes to opening the airbox and adding an increased flow exhaust. Case in point: During a dyno run on the WR,performed by one of the Japanese mags, a 2hp increase was noted after opening the airbox and adding an aftermarket exaust.With the addition of apower commander, that figured increased to over 5hp! Further, not all EFI systems are created equal.Doing the same mods to the KLX (no power commander; not yet available)resulted in a 2hp DECREASE!

So, ifsome sort of aftermarket remapping chip for the KLXis never offered,engine performance tweaks will be almost impossible without ripping out the EFI and bolting on a carb and gravity feed tank. At this point, I wouldrather haveacarbureted model.

If Kawiplans on bring EFI stateside -after all, it only seems logicall- Isurehope somebodycomes-up with a re-mapchip by then. It would sure be a shame to let all of that potential go to waste. Imagine the thought ofLOSING hp by adding a pipe! [:@]

 

Thanks for the suggestion, but that ain't gonna work for me.

First, that price tag is way out of my league - I have way too many other expensive vices... errrr... hobbies that also need feeding. New guns, new camera lenses, new skis, new kayaks... you know how it goes. Second, sooner or later I am going to have to drag the bike around by whatever I can grab ahold of, and it is equally inevitable that sooner or later I am going to have to muscle it over a deadfall or two. I don't think I want to do that with anything much heavier than the KLX class bikes. The fact that I have no intention of seeing how fast I can pound through rock gardens and bounce off trees anymore doesn't mean I'm half a step away from having the coffin lid nailed shut - there's lots of nice single track around here, I'm just a little smarter/cautious/whatever as I get a little older and don't heal up so good anymore.

Finally, probably from my 125 MX bike roots, but I've always liked light little nimble bikes. Maybe I'll find I hate them now, especially as I've never ridden a thumper, but ya gotta go with what ya know.

However, I can think of some long, long stretchs of beautiful forest service and mining roads around here where something with more comfort and much longer legs would be just the cats *** for long trips. Some of those trips would be absolutely epic, and I've ridden a few of them on my mountain bike (would have much preferred a bike, however...).

Thanks for the suggestion, however!

 

"A few ponies"??? If what I have been reading is correct - 25 HP versus 18 HP, that's a bit more than "a few ponies". What's that - something like very close to 40% more horsepower, isn't it? Again assuming all the Internet Info is correct, a 40% horsepower advantage isn't insignificant. You have to put that into context of course - how useable the power is, how it's distributed, the general rideability of the bikes for the riding style of the potential buyer. But that kind of HP advantage, if true, is pretty had to play down. I doubt too many KLX owners would shrug their shoulders and go "so what" if Kawi gifted the KLX with another 7 HP... isn't that what those big bore kits are about?

Probably not. What will be interesting to see is how the dual sport 250cc class goes with two such different bikes. If the industries profile of the people buying these bikes is accurate, Kawasaki may find themselves playing catch-up big time - no matter how KLX's are going out the door right now. The Yammi's aren't exactly languishing on dealer floors from what I've seen while snooping the net in the last few days.

Where I used to ride and will be riding again, it isn't hard to find rides with a minimum elevation of around 2300 ASL and shortly afterward be riding just under 7000 ASL. So aside from an expectation that EFI would increase fuel economy and the legs of the bike in stock trim, and give it more power to haul heavier loads that are probably inching towards being marginal, I think FI would be a pretty nice touch when you ride where those kind of altitude changes can be pretty normal.

But then, that's just me...

 

Kawasaki just plain old drag their feet with the KLX, All the other brands have had a 450 enduro for years, Kawasaki have only had the 450 out for a little over a year. The 250 has had it's first real upgrade for 20 years just this year. Even then the motor hasn't changed. My tip, don't expect FI in the near future for the KLX250.

Oh btw don't put much weight on the subframe unless you brace it, it will break.

 

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the possibility. What you are talking about with the KX250F and 450F is the same in Japan (450F gets EFI; 250F doesn't). However, the KLX250S/D-Tracker already has EFI, so how do you explain that?....allow me to answer...they are steet legal, so emissionsregs are more strict than 'off-road only' models, correct?. For thatreason alone, I can envision EFI on stateside KLX's in a year or so...they just need to work-out the bugs on us poor slobs in the domestic market first[8D]

There you have it...I'll either be gloating or inserting my foot in my mouth a couple of years from now.

 

Yep agree there Dean.
The eco ***** will drive everything to EFI.
(I shouldn't be so dismissive as I think environmental issues are important)
And that might happen sooner than we think.

The KLX here is Oz is a price point machine.
Being in production nearly unchanged for 15 years is one of the reasons it is so well priced.
So the CV carby gets another run.

EFI is the future grasshopper.

The so called 09 model, (not fooling anyone I suspect), is just a refresh.
If the KLX250 goes EFI then it will be a whole new bike.
Nothing in common with the current machine.
Which will be a pity.

 

a refresh? I would consider the '09 more than a "refresh". it got many new parts. Too many parts in fact to bring out a whole new bike when fi enters the USA, there would be no time to make profits on the new bike to change it so quickly. The only parts the '09 shares with the '06/'07 is the frame and engine. Heck, fi may come next year on the stateside KLX250S, but I doubt it. Why would it? It's more expensive and Americans love their carbs. Why would they want to raise the price on a bike that is sold before uncrated practically? That's what would happen if they put fi on the thing. Then, buyers of the KLX may consider the new WR more and Kawi could lose sales. I say it is at least 4-5 years out for here. Europe and Asia always get features or even models that the US hasn't even heard of or seen, happens all the time. Look at the KLX250S, it's been around for years but just made it to the US in '06 and we thought it was a new model. It's been offered overseas for years.