Big Gun vs. Little Me
#31
09-15-2006, 05:32 AM
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 966
RE: Big Gun vs. Little Me - Epilogue
I'm glad to see this thread stirred up a lot of interest ... and that's the whole point: Companies HATE "bad press".
I'm getting screwed, but I'm not whining about it, and I hope that's not how this whole thing comes across.
I'm writing this (as most of you have already figured out) to make other people aware of what they could be headed for if they choose to deal with Big Gun.
We are the customers. We are why companies exist. We pick which companies we choose to deal with based on various factors, and some people consider customer support to be an important factor. (Think of it as an election ... we "vote" for companies by where we choose to spend our money.) To those people who think Customer Service is an important issue, this thread may help them decide how to vote.
The problem, as someone mentioned earlier, is most people never say anything when customer service is good ... usually only when its bad.
In my case, not only was the service bad, but their Customer Service GM actually agreed when I summarized that:
Also, Bike Bandit is not entirely innocent here, either. True, the problem wasn't their fault, but early on, I was keeping them in the loop with what was going on, just in case resolution through Big Gun wasn't going to happen. I actually sent an e-mail to them shortly after the US/Canadian thing was settled and Big Gun confirmed that my pipe measurements didn't match a true 10-4311 head pipe measurement. I told them I'm still trying to pursue resolution through Big Gun, but if that doesn't work out, I'll be returning the whole package to them. I quoted the "mistake made by the manufacturer" bit from their return policy:
"If you need to return an item because it was damaged during shipping or because of a mistake made by the manufacturer or BikeBandit.com, please contact us and we will assist you - in these cases no restocking fees will apply and we will cover the return shipping expense."
and their response was completely ludicrous -- the crap about their site not saying it fits the Canadian model, etc. (And IowaGuy pointed out in a previous post the part about restocking fees only applying to OEM parts ... that part of their response is pure crap as well.) So, there's no long tale to tell about Bike Bandit, but it seems the only thing their Customer Service reps will do is tell you whatever it takes that allows them to avoid their responsibilities, too.
Anyway, I don't want this post to turn into a rant. [sm=rant.gif]
Getting back to the point, let's let companies know that Customer Service matters, and that customer satisfaction is the objective. Its not acceptable to be ignored, mistreated, lied to, or brushed aside. Consumer protection comes in many forms, and spreading the message in forums like this is one of them. So, just like a bad product review ...
I'm getting screwed, but I'm not whining about it, and I hope that's not how this whole thing comes across.
I'm writing this (as most of you have already figured out) to make other people aware of what they could be headed for if they choose to deal with Big Gun.
We are the customers. We are why companies exist. We pick which companies we choose to deal with based on various factors, and some people consider customer support to be an important factor. (Think of it as an election ... we "vote" for companies by where we choose to spend our money.) To those people who think Customer Service is an important issue, this thread may help them decide how to vote.
The problem, as someone mentioned earlier, is most people never say anything when customer service is good ... usually only when its bad.
In my case, not only was the service bad, but their Customer Service GM actually agreed when I summarized that:
"Sometimes Big Gun makes mistakes, and our customers have to suffer because of it."
That's about as blatant as saying "Hey customer, Go f*ck yourself!" I would be doing a disservice to potential customers by NOT letting people know about that.Also, Bike Bandit is not entirely innocent here, either. True, the problem wasn't their fault, but early on, I was keeping them in the loop with what was going on, just in case resolution through Big Gun wasn't going to happen. I actually sent an e-mail to them shortly after the US/Canadian thing was settled and Big Gun confirmed that my pipe measurements didn't match a true 10-4311 head pipe measurement. I told them I'm still trying to pursue resolution through Big Gun, but if that doesn't work out, I'll be returning the whole package to them. I quoted the "mistake made by the manufacturer" bit from their return policy:
"If you need to return an item because it was damaged during shipping or because of a mistake made by the manufacturer or BikeBandit.com, please contact us and we will assist you - in these cases no restocking fees will apply and we will cover the return shipping expense."
and their response was completely ludicrous -- the crap about their site not saying it fits the Canadian model, etc. (And IowaGuy pointed out in a previous post the part about restocking fees only applying to OEM parts ... that part of their response is pure crap as well.) So, there's no long tale to tell about Bike Bandit, but it seems the only thing their Customer Service reps will do is tell you whatever it takes that allows them to avoid their responsibilities, too.
Anyway, I don't want this post to turn into a rant. [sm=rant.gif]
Getting back to the point, let's let companies know that Customer Service matters, and that customer satisfaction is the objective. Its not acceptable to be ignored, mistreated, lied to, or brushed aside. Consumer protection comes in many forms, and spreading the message in forums like this is one of them. So, just like a bad product review ...
"Bad Service = Bad Press!"
#32
09-15-2006, 09:18 AM
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: Big Gun vs. Little Me - Epilogue
Again, I didn't want to sound too harsh earlier and if I pissed you off you keep your cool really good which is better than I can do sometimes along with certain other people on this forum who have a 'hard time stopping'. I think if you would have done a bit more research before you bought, you would have seen the place to buy BigGun pipes is from motorcycleparts.biz. I still don't know why the canadian model thing plays into this. Did you tell them you had this model? If so, you probably dug your own grave.
And to the fast guy who can't slow down properly who pondered the thought of where I sent my email to get my replacement screws, if you would re-read my post and put two and two together you would see that I already said where it got sent. BUT, had it been the system that didn't fit, I sure as heck would have called motorcycleparts.biz and demanded it get replaced and not got on the phone to some large corp. and state my case, because they could care less.
But just look at it his way- when you do get your correct header pipe, feel comfort in knowing that 1) your passenger footpeg isn't going to hit the pipe when folded down. 2) you don't have to dent your midpipe to use your passenger footpeg. 3) your silencer isn't goint to sit way low and stick out like a sore thumb like some plain satin/black/non ceramic systems do. 4) your header pipe won't discolor. 5) your system was engineered for your KLX 250 and not the KLX 300. 6) the smile on your face after you whack the throttle will not be replaced by anything as long as you're on your bike.
good luck and be persistent.
And to the fast guy who can't slow down properly who pondered the thought of where I sent my email to get my replacement screws, if you would re-read my post and put two and two together you would see that I already said where it got sent. BUT, had it been the system that didn't fit, I sure as heck would have called motorcycleparts.biz and demanded it get replaced and not got on the phone to some large corp. and state my case, because they could care less.
But just look at it his way- when you do get your correct header pipe, feel comfort in knowing that 1) your passenger footpeg isn't going to hit the pipe when folded down. 2) you don't have to dent your midpipe to use your passenger footpeg. 3) your silencer isn't goint to sit way low and stick out like a sore thumb like some plain satin/black/non ceramic systems do. 4) your header pipe won't discolor. 5) your system was engineered for your KLX 250 and not the KLX 300. 6) the smile on your face after you whack the throttle will not be replaced by anything as long as you're on your bike.
good luck and be persistent.
#34
09-16-2006, 02:05 AM
RE: Big Gun vs. Little Me - Epilogue
I know I shouldn't but...but...but...
The Muzzy looks 'da bomb. I don't know where your gettin' that "sticks too far out" BS.
Also, the Big Gun Evo X was not designed for the KLX250S (or any KLX250 for that matter). It's a KLX300 application with a different suffix on the part number.
I'll take a 1/16" ding in my mid-pipe any time if that's the only knock on the Muzzy. I don't ride two up anyway so who cares?
Let's revisit this when we've both got 10K miles on the pipes. If your Big Gun lives up to it's family DNA, I know who'll be smiling by then
The Muzzy looks 'da bomb. I don't know where your gettin' that "sticks too far out" BS.
Also, the Big Gun Evo X was not designed for the KLX250S (or any KLX250 for that matter). It's a KLX300 application with a different suffix on the part number.
I'll take a 1/16" ding in my mid-pipe any time if that's the only knock on the Muzzy. I don't ride two up anyway so who cares?
Let's revisit this when we've both got 10K miles on the pipes. If your Big Gun lives up to it's family DNA, I know who'll be smiling by then
#35
09-16-2006, 03:16 AM
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 12,584
RE: Big Gun vs. Little Me - Epilogue
hey, are you saying that the muzzy was tuned for the klx250s? I know the big gun is for the klx300, but how much of a difference could there be, they ( big gun and muzzy) both flow better than stock and both are pretty much a straight thru muffler(im guessing on the muzzy). I dont care what anyone says i love my big gun and how it sounds.
ORIGINAL: bmwhd
I know I shouldn't but...but...but...
The Muzzy looks 'da bomb. I don't know where your gettin' that "sticks too far out" BS.
Also, the Big Gun Evo X was not designed for the KLX250S (or any KLX250 for that matter). It's a KLX300 application with a different suffix on the part number.
I'll take a 1/16" ding in my mid-pipe any time if that's the only knock on the Muzzy. I don't ride two up anyway so who cares?
Let's revisit this when we've both got 10K miles on the pipes. If your Big Gun lives up to it's family DNA, I know who'll be smiling by then
I know I shouldn't but...but...but...
The Muzzy looks 'da bomb. I don't know where your gettin' that "sticks too far out" BS.
Also, the Big Gun Evo X was not designed for the KLX250S (or any KLX250 for that matter). It's a KLX300 application with a different suffix on the part number.
I'll take a 1/16" ding in my mid-pipe any time if that's the only knock on the Muzzy. I don't ride two up anyway so who cares?
Let's revisit this when we've both got 10K miles on the pipes. If your Big Gun lives up to it's family DNA, I know who'll be smiling by then
#36
09-16-2006, 05:16 AM
RE: Big Gun vs. Little Me - Epilogue
All this makes me nervous about buying anything on line.
Over here the onus on putting it right always lies with who you bought it from and not the manufacturer.
That is who you have a "contract" with.
bikebandit agreed to sell you the right product and they didn't.
bikebandit have an agreement with big gun and it should be them that sorts it out with them.
bikebandit should have replaced it without question and then go to big gun and sort it out.
You are bikebandits customer not big guns.
bikebandits are big guns customer etc.
I was a technical specialist for Panasonic for years and when ever a problem occurred it was ultimatly the retailer who had to put it right. Exchange, money back or what ever.
As the manufacturer we would bend over backwards for the customer, but not because we had to, but because we wanted the retailer to stay happy with us.
If one guy gets pissed over 1 TV he might tell 10 people and it might cost me 3 sales.
If the retailer gets pissed they might put my TV way down the back and that might cost me a 1000 sales.
Big Gun won't be too concerned if 1 guy in Canada is not happy. Even these posts don't result in the loss of too many sales.
They will pretend otherwise.
Big Gun would be really concerned if bikebandit was pissed.
Big Gun are much more likely to respond quickly to a big customer like bikebandit.
That does not excuse big guns poor attitude in this instance.
They should have sorted this out with you just to keep bikebandit happy.
That's why the sellers try and pass the buck onto the manufacturer.
If bikebandit had responded quickly then YYY.GUY might have posted that even though big gun messed up bikebandit would have been praised and we would all have felt confidenr using them for all our parts requirements and not just big gun exhausts.
As it is I might still buy a big gun (and I might not also), but I need to buy it from someone who will put it right if it's goes wrong.
The moral and I suspect legal responsability lies with who took my money.
Over here the onus on putting it right always lies with who you bought it from and not the manufacturer.
That is who you have a "contract" with.
bikebandit agreed to sell you the right product and they didn't.
bikebandit have an agreement with big gun and it should be them that sorts it out with them.
bikebandit should have replaced it without question and then go to big gun and sort it out.
You are bikebandits customer not big guns.
bikebandits are big guns customer etc.
I was a technical specialist for Panasonic for years and when ever a problem occurred it was ultimatly the retailer who had to put it right. Exchange, money back or what ever.
As the manufacturer we would bend over backwards for the customer, but not because we had to, but because we wanted the retailer to stay happy with us.
If one guy gets pissed over 1 TV he might tell 10 people and it might cost me 3 sales.
If the retailer gets pissed they might put my TV way down the back and that might cost me a 1000 sales.
Big Gun won't be too concerned if 1 guy in Canada is not happy. Even these posts don't result in the loss of too many sales.
They will pretend otherwise.
Big Gun would be really concerned if bikebandit was pissed.
Big Gun are much more likely to respond quickly to a big customer like bikebandit.
That does not excuse big guns poor attitude in this instance.
They should have sorted this out with you just to keep bikebandit happy.
That's why the sellers try and pass the buck onto the manufacturer.
If bikebandit had responded quickly then YYY.GUY might have posted that even though big gun messed up bikebandit would have been praised and we would all have felt confidenr using them for all our parts requirements and not just big gun exhausts.
As it is I might still buy a big gun (and I might not also), but I need to buy it from someone who will put it right if it's goes wrong.
The moral and I suspect legal responsability lies with who took my money.
#37
09-16-2006, 07:14 AM
RE: Big Gun vs. Little Me - Epilogue
ORIGINAL: EMS_0525
hey, are you saying that the muzzy was tuned for the klx250s? I know the big gun is for the klx300, but how much of a difference could there be, they ( big gun and muzzy) both flow better than stock and both are pretty much a straight thru muffler(im guessing on the muzzy). I dont care what anyone says i love my big gun and how it sounds.
hey, are you saying that the muzzy was tuned for the klx250s? I know the big gun is for the klx300, but how much of a difference could there be, they ( big gun and muzzy) both flow better than stock and both are pretty much a straight thru muffler(im guessing on the muzzy). I dont care what anyone says i love my big gun and how it sounds.
ORIGINAL: bmwhd
I know I shouldn't but...but...but...
The Muzzy looks 'da bomb. I don't know where your gettin' that "sticks too far out" BS.
Also, the Big Gun Evo X was not designed for the KLX250S (or any KLX250 for that matter). It's a KLX300 application with a different suffix on the part number.
I'll take a 1/16" ding in my mid-pipe any time if that's the only knock on the Muzzy. I don't ride two up anyway so who cares?
Let's revisit this when we've both got 10K miles on the pipes. If your Big Gun lives up to it's family DNA, I know who'll be smiling by then
I know I shouldn't but...but...but...
The Muzzy looks 'da bomb. I don't know where your gettin' that "sticks too far out" BS.
Also, the Big Gun Evo X was not designed for the KLX250S (or any KLX250 for that matter). It's a KLX300 application with a different suffix on the part number.
I'll take a 1/16" ding in my mid-pipe any time if that's the only knock on the Muzzy. I don't ride two up anyway so who cares?
Let's revisit this when we've both got 10K miles on the pipes. If your Big Gun lives up to it's family DNA, I know who'll be smiling by then
I've got no experience with the Evo X series but the earlier Big Gun I owned was ****e for quality. Kept blowing up on my KLR650. It did sound sweet though when it would stay in one piece!
#38
09-16-2006, 07:43 AM
RE: Big Gun vs. Little Me
I to have a Big Gun,I waited 3 weeks for it and when it arrived,NO Q core so I one dayed 1 from Rocky mountain so I could use the pipe.I ordered from motocycle Biz they called Big Gun and they had me call them,the guy at Big Gun told me to shoot him an email so I did it from work and DAM they sent one to my house and sent one to my work, they also said they would send me a shirt no shirt, nothing yet its ok I have an extra Q core now thanks BIG GUN.maybe I will buy a muffler for the CRF Now !!!
#39
09-18-2006, 10:46 PM
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 966
RE: Big Gun vs. Little Me - Epilogue
ORIGINAL: neilaction
All this makes me nervous about buying anything on line.
Over here the onus on putting it right always lies with who you bought it from and not the manufacturer.
That is who you have a "contract" with.
bikebandit agreed to sell you the right product and they didn't.
bikebandit have an agreement with big gun and it should be them that sorts it out with them.
bikebandit should have replaced it without question and then go to big gun and sort it out.
You are bikebandits customer not big guns.
bikebandits are big guns customer etc.
:
:
The moral and I suspect legal responsability lies with who took my money.
All this makes me nervous about buying anything on line.
Over here the onus on putting it right always lies with who you bought it from and not the manufacturer.
That is who you have a "contract" with.
bikebandit agreed to sell you the right product and they didn't.
bikebandit have an agreement with big gun and it should be them that sorts it out with them.
bikebandit should have replaced it without question and then go to big gun and sort it out.
You are bikebandits customer not big guns.
bikebandits are big guns customer etc.
:
:
The moral and I suspect legal responsability lies with who took my money.
Unfortunately for me, Bike Bandit isn't entirely innocent, either:
Early on I asked them about returning the exhaust system, and they said that I'd have to pay for shipping because "Our site never said it would fit the Canadian model". (BTW - Their site doesn't say anything about a "US" model, either, so I don't know what that was supposed to mean. [sm=WTFsgign.gif]) I kept them in the loop in resolving the problem through Big Gun, and when it was clear that Big Gun had mislabeled the part and that there was no such thing as US & Canadian models, I told them I might be returning it to them "due to a mistake made by the manufacturer". Again, they said that the pipe will not fit Canadian models, and that I can return it, but I would have to pay for shipping and restocking.
From the e-mails that I got from them, it seems that Bike Bandit Customer Support people will tell you whatever it takes for them to avoid their responsibilities.
(Note: IowaGuy said that I kind of dug my own grave by speculating that I had a "Canadian" model. In hind sight, he's probably right and that wasn't a good thing for me to do. Usually, however, Customer Support staff never trust customer input and try to verify things for themselves -- which is probably a good approach. In this case, I was completely wrong on that point, yet that was Bike Bandit's whole argument for not letting me return my pipe according to their return policy. [sm=lame.gif])
I guess the old saying is still true: "Buyer beware!"
Mike
#40
09-18-2006, 11:15 PM
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: Big Gun vs. Little Me - Epilogue
LMAO.
I guess BMW's (who I distinctly respect) posts are to me so of course i'll reply.
I think one could argue that the BigGun EvoX was designed for the 250 since it fits it like a glove. The Muzzy, well, we don't need to go there again. Here's my bottom line: I've bought muzzy pipes before. They sound nice but I had QC issues with two of them and sent them back to Muzzy to repair them (Ninjas). I'd also hate to think I shelled out near $400 or more on a WOO HOO, STAINLESS system just so the minute I install it I immediately have to dent it in just so it will work. That is ludicrous and if anyone on here doesn't agree with that, well, they're just too plain scared or ignorant to admit it. I think we can all agree the BigGun works best with the 250S, as it fits with no problems. And, as someone else said besides me, it does stick out like a sore thumb compared to the nice tucked in BigGun. Of COURSE, these are just my reflections.
I guess BMW's (who I distinctly respect) posts are to me so of course i'll reply.
I think one could argue that the BigGun EvoX was designed for the 250 since it fits it like a glove. The Muzzy, well, we don't need to go there again. Here's my bottom line: I've bought muzzy pipes before. They sound nice but I had QC issues with two of them and sent them back to Muzzy to repair them (Ninjas). I'd also hate to think I shelled out near $400 or more on a WOO HOO, STAINLESS system just so the minute I install it I immediately have to dent it in just so it will work. That is ludicrous and if anyone on here doesn't agree with that, well, they're just too plain scared or ignorant to admit it. I think we can all agree the BigGun works best with the 250S, as it fits with no problems. And, as someone else said besides me, it does stick out like a sore thumb compared to the nice tucked in BigGun. Of COURSE, these are just my reflections.