No kidding.

Didn't I pretty much indicate that I was only quoting the Marcelino posts? Didn't I actually give the quote? Go pick on your dog or something... I'm not your whipping boy.

By the way:

And there was a question mark after my comment. You do know what a question mark is and means don't you? Oh oh, there's another one.

 

Well, I'd already beaten the dog.. And I've always assumed I know enough about the question mark to get by..

Upon further review of the recent posts here, my determination is that you've got to quit sniffing glue..




I have.

 

I contacted Bill and he is still using JE pistons for his kits. From the previous research and posts, it appears it has been established that the piston clearances (in his kits) are the same as stock. I plan to order his kit and will probably just set it up with the standard cam timing at first.

 

You can make history - and possibly set a new paradigm - if you can provide definitive, non-subjective information on the difference in performance levels ..(with and without MCM on a 351)..

 

There ya go. If you don't have a bunch of money to spend on dyno runs you do what you can, like a large number of riders out there. Until royalties are paid by someone, setting the paradigm and making history along with a buck gets you a cup of coffee at McDonalds.

 

That's "old member" thinking - where year after year all make and manner of "stuff" was done, or not done, on KLX's because of "herd mentality".. Inevitably, when one ran off the cliff, others followed..

We have many "new" members, over the last handful of years, that have taken the time to provide invaluable data - data for which everyone (now and for all in the future) can benefit. (This thread is not the place to list these members and their contributions but I would be happy to make a new sticky with their names and "bylines"..)

For instance, anyone that is contemplating a BB kit is in trouble - there is no data confirming proper fueling ! As such, being forced to use non-verified carb/EFI setups, and run unknown fueling curves puts too much at risk (IMO) .. The old school herd mentality of "It seems to be running fine with this setup" does not "cut it" as we now know the KLX will run "just fine" with crazy incorrect fueling.

Sooner or later, someone WILL step up to the plate to insure that their BB bike has proper fueling (and max performance) with dyno data/tuning. And a proper pathway for all others will have been "set"...

 

 

Hey everyone, I'm proud to admit that I run jetting from the Old School Herd, thanks to D. Pippin and others from the ancient times of 2006-2008. Yes, it does run fine and sure it may not be perfect, but I don't have a wad of money and time I feel like dumping into my $2000 bike. Mostly because I just don't care if it has the last tenth of a horsepower squeezed out of it or that the fueling isn't perfect, and that I want to ride it just the way it is - better jetted than OEM, so that's an improvement for sure. Not death and destruction.

You see, I am happy with it. It pulls the hills, slogs through the mud and sand, it runs better than it did, starts as good as my EFI street bike. It slides around corners when I want it to, does wheelies too. I spent a couple hours pulling off the carb, jetting it per the information on Pippin's web site, put it back on and never looked back. It was never about having the fastest KLX, it was about having some fun riding a dual sport. And I'm doing that. I just don't feel like making my KLX my life's work.

Heck from what I've read here only two or three riders have gone to all the trouble of getting the gauging on their bikes and actually tuning them that way. I just read a Hot Rod article about A/F reading, their "affordable accurate" gauge ran $350. What's next, monitoring our coolant temperature for optimum cooling, air inlet temperature? I know that's in line eventually for that $350 gauge. Plus I wonder how accurate the gauging used by others may be. It's all part of the pursuit of perfection. I just didn't enter the race.

Most come here and ask for advice from members here. The advice gets doled out same way as the Old School Herd method, difference is one set of recommended jetting was found Old School Herd style, swapping out jets until the bike ran decently, the other was done New School Herd using A/F gauging, which is used to get to a specific range still swapping out jets, but a better idea of what size to use or whether to go richer or leaner. Nice, quicker, but a shade more expensive.

Of course you'd think the A/F method is bullet proof and perfect, but it seems racers have to revise their cutting edge EFI even on the same day due to weather conditions if they want to win. It is no more "one size fits all" than old school jet swapping is. Yes, it is more accurate - unless the old guy was good at what he did, then they might be darn close. Plus it still involves swapping jets to see what hits the right spot on the meter. The question is if humidity increases 20% and temperatures drop 20% what happens to the mix? Do we have to change jets for weather conditions to be correct? Do we have to re-jet for every 2000 feet rise in elevation to be correct? Well, for perfect A/F ratio, probably yes. But if correct for you is that the bike runs okay for what you're doing, no. If you've ridden more than 10 years you've been riding carbureted bikes with what would be sub-optimum jetting for maximum performance. Virtually all of them ran lean. Did it stop you from riding and having fun? Did you notice your bike was missing 1-2 horsepower?

Now with EFI the ECU controls fueling with a set range, the range can be altered for max performance for a couple hundred dollars. Re-flashing the ECU or adding a plug in electronic ECU modifier will likely need be done if high performance parts are added, unless the aftermarket manufacturer points out it isn't needed. Nice part is with the O2 sensor on a closed loop it should give the right mixture automatically if it is within the EFI ECU range. Nice thing about EFI. As the aftermarket manufacturers get better they will have the maps done for a rider to use where they are riding for virtually any bike.

But I have a carburetor so I won't get this benefit. I do know I will save a couple hundred dollars, maybe more, and still get to ride my fun bike even if the jetting is a bit rich or a bit lean.. Odds are I will be paying more attention to the road or trail than noticing if the bike is a tenth or so faster or slower in a quarter mile. So all in all I'm pretty content.

If you are a bit like me, you are still a good person, in spite of the fact that you have not dyno tuned your bike or put on instrumentation. Welcome to the Old School Herd. You are still a good person if you just want to run around on it and have fun. In spite of what the naysayers imply you are not some low life or totally ignorant. Your goals just aren't quite the same as theirs... and some apparently don't like it.

 

Oh holy crap !!! This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about !!!!

Just think of all the peeps, now and in the future, that'll do what that guy did, but not dyno, and run around with over 14:1 AFR at WOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!! And did you see the lean"spike" that jumped all the way off the chart !!!!!!!!!!!

And this is EFI.. So it should be relatively easy to correct (with the EJK) ... How many peeps are running around with carbs on their 351's, running crazy fueling, and not knowing it !!!!

Remember all, your KLX 250/351/Ect will run "just fine" (as this guys' does) with fueling so "wrong" as to be not just power robbing, but longevity destroying !!!

This lack of 351 fueling knowledge needs rectifying ...

KLX678, I don't think I've ever thought of you as a Quote:"some low life or totally ignorant" person ... But I could be wrong...
No one can be blamed for using all available knowledge to properly mod and fuel their KLX - I'm just saying the 351 fueling needs testing and verification.. And that data should be on this forum, available to all..

 

Hey guys, I think we got way off track here but at least some ideas were discussed that should benefit some KLX riders.

Back to the MCM mod for the BB 351 kit. I think I will take the time to put some clay on top of the piston and set the cams in the MCM position, rotate it around a few times very carefully with the spark plug out, remove the head, and inspect the clay so we know for sure if there is any danger of valves striking the piston in that configuration. It may be awhile though-I have some testing scheduled and then some surgery after that. I don't feel old but my body is telling me that I am getting old. Oh well, things could always be worse. I could have gone from being an Olympic champion on the cover of the Wheaties box to the cover of the Fruit Loops box. Just kidding-trying to lighten the mood here-hahaha.