Valve clearances/adjustment
#11
RE: Valve clearances/adjustment
Notstock, regarding cams - they are one solid piece with the gear bolted on the end. You can't adjust them but it is very important that you put it back together with the correct timing. Otherwise, your valves will be opening and closing at the wrong times and the effect could be anywhere from poor running or not running at all.
If you are sure that the are currently timed correctly, you can zip-tie the cam chain to the sprocket of each cam. That way, you know at least that the timing has not been changed when you get it back together. If you are not sure as it looks like in your post above, you'll need to use the timing marks on the cam sprockets and make sure they are lined up correctly - usually they point horizontally and are about even with the edge of the engine cap as in this photo (click photo to zoom high res):
...
The valve lifter buckets should be able to be pulled out with your fingers - no tools required. Just twist them a little bit and work them out. They are held in with a little bit of vacuum from the oil and what not. It's tempting to use pliers but don't - fingers work and won't scratch or mar them up.
I don't know how similar the tensioner is on my little '250 with yours, but it's pretty simple - just a spring pushing against a ratcheting mechanism that tensions the chain but doesn't allow it to retract after it has been extended. You need to be careful with this - it's not hard but you just need to make sure and release the ratcheting mechanism before reinstalling, otherwise it could cause serious damage if you try to bolt it back into place as it would be under way too much tension. On mine, the tensioner is held in place by 2 outside bolts and a center bolt sits in between.
...
The spring is behind the center bolt. When you reinstall it, retract the tensioner by releasing the ratchet clip, install the tensioner body with the 2 outside bolts, then insert the spring and the bolt behind it and tightend that up. Has to be done in that order, otherwise the spring will extend the ratcheting mechanism prematurely and the chain will be too tight and surely cause damage and be expensive to fix.
It's a lot harder to describe than to actually do.
One final thought - be sure you have the shop manual. Also, be sure you take your valve clearance measurements and write down the results before removing the cams. You need those values in order to know what size new shim needs to be installed, assuming they are out of spec. If they are in spec, your job is easy - just replace your valve cover and your done - no need to remove the cams or the tensioner or anything else.
In the manual you will find a table that has the old valve shim size in one column, and the current valve clearence measurement in the row. You simply go down the column of your existing shim value and match it up with your existing clearence measurement. In that table position you will find the required new shim size that needs to be installed in order to bring the clearence back into spec.
Unless you already know the values, the only way to know what size shim you currently have installed is to remove the valve lifter bucket, remove the old shim, and measure it.
This reminds me - be sure and write down the new valve shim sizes for future reference. That way you know what is installed in each valve position so that you can know what valve shims you will need next time without having to remove the cams, etc. This is useful in case you need to order valve shims - you know the sizes you need before hand and can have them ready.
Edit: links to images no longer work
If you are sure that the are currently timed correctly, you can zip-tie the cam chain to the sprocket of each cam. That way, you know at least that the timing has not been changed when you get it back together. If you are not sure as it looks like in your post above, you'll need to use the timing marks on the cam sprockets and make sure they are lined up correctly - usually they point horizontally and are about even with the edge of the engine cap as in this photo (click photo to zoom high res):
...
The valve lifter buckets should be able to be pulled out with your fingers - no tools required. Just twist them a little bit and work them out. They are held in with a little bit of vacuum from the oil and what not. It's tempting to use pliers but don't - fingers work and won't scratch or mar them up.
I don't know how similar the tensioner is on my little '250 with yours, but it's pretty simple - just a spring pushing against a ratcheting mechanism that tensions the chain but doesn't allow it to retract after it has been extended. You need to be careful with this - it's not hard but you just need to make sure and release the ratcheting mechanism before reinstalling, otherwise it could cause serious damage if you try to bolt it back into place as it would be under way too much tension. On mine, the tensioner is held in place by 2 outside bolts and a center bolt sits in between.
...
The spring is behind the center bolt. When you reinstall it, retract the tensioner by releasing the ratchet clip, install the tensioner body with the 2 outside bolts, then insert the spring and the bolt behind it and tightend that up. Has to be done in that order, otherwise the spring will extend the ratcheting mechanism prematurely and the chain will be too tight and surely cause damage and be expensive to fix.
It's a lot harder to describe than to actually do.
One final thought - be sure you have the shop manual. Also, be sure you take your valve clearance measurements and write down the results before removing the cams. You need those values in order to know what size new shim needs to be installed, assuming they are out of spec. If they are in spec, your job is easy - just replace your valve cover and your done - no need to remove the cams or the tensioner or anything else.
In the manual you will find a table that has the old valve shim size in one column, and the current valve clearence measurement in the row. You simply go down the column of your existing shim value and match it up with your existing clearence measurement. In that table position you will find the required new shim size that needs to be installed in order to bring the clearence back into spec.
Unless you already know the values, the only way to know what size shim you currently have installed is to remove the valve lifter bucket, remove the old shim, and measure it.
This reminds me - be sure and write down the new valve shim sizes for future reference. That way you know what is installed in each valve position so that you can know what valve shims you will need next time without having to remove the cams, etc. This is useful in case you need to order valve shims - you know the sizes you need before hand and can have them ready.
Edit: links to images no longer work
#12
RE: Valve clearances/adjustment
Bluebird: nice link I will get lots of info from it for sure.
Nobrakes; thanks to you again and the pics help a lot. I will have to take the cams out to find out what size the shims are because I do not know. Your pics are great and are helpful.
As far as the timing goes, I will check to se if mine have those lines like yours, is all I have to do is line them up and its done? No timing light?
Well looks like with help I will get through this but it is intimidating for sure.
oh do you know why I would get smoke into where I fill the bike with oil, is it a bad valve or worse like a piston.
I do understand the tensioner, I have replaced the one on my zx7 before and it is similar to yours, just need to move your’s impossibly close to the frame and then it would be like mine.lol
Fontana, very fun always, I have run the bike there a few times and it is nice to use the pits, I have also run Winston west car there about 4 times, 165mph and then you hit the rev limiter but it is dam fun as well.
Hopefully i will get into this on Monday and get all the measurements and pull the shims to see what sizes are there now. I need to go and buy a couple of measuring devices first.
Thanks for all the info again KF.
#13
RE: Valve clearances/adjustment
ORIGINAL: Notstock
As far as the timing goes, I will check to se if mine have those lines like yours, is all I have to do is line them up and its done? No timing light?
As far as the timing goes, I will check to se if mine have those lines like yours, is all I have to do is line them up and its done? No timing light?
The second thing is the number of cam chain links between the timing marks counting from the right hand side of the exhaust cam in my photo, all the way over to the mark on the left side of the inlet cam. My shop manual says there should be 31 or 32 chain link pivots (can't remember off the top of my head).
So if your timing cam gear marks are lined up correctly and you have the right number of timing chain links between the marks, then you are golden.
#14
RE: Valve clearances/adjustment
I will read in my manual for that on the timing, I sure hope so that sounds easy, I counted 32 exactly on yours. My exhaust is foreward as well, I finaly figured that out with some more reading in the service maual.
Any clues to why I am getting smoke in the engine where the oil fill is at.
Any clues to why I am getting smoke in the engine where the oil fill is at.
#16
RE: Valve clearances/adjustment
Everyy engine I've ever seen smokes internally. On my 7, if you dig into the air box, where the pvc hose comes off the engine and into the airbox, it smokes a tad, esp if you raise the rpms. But My guess the smoke comes from the valves/timing not being PERFECT.
#17
RE: Valve clearances/adjustment
ORIGINAL: walight01
Everyy engine I've ever seen smokes internally. On my 7, if you dig into the air box, where the pvc hose comes off the engine and into the airbox, it smokes a tad, esp if you raise the rpms. But My guess the smoke comes from the valves/timing not being PERFECT.
Everyy engine I've ever seen smokes internally. On my 7, if you dig into the air box, where the pvc hose comes off the engine and into the airbox, it smokes a tad, esp if you raise the rpms. But My guess the smoke comes from the valves/timing not being PERFECT.
I am almost hoping to find the valves to be out and after adjustment the smoke goes away.
I am also thinking that if one or more of the exhaust valves are slightly bent and not sealing properly maybe that would cause it. I am hoping I do not have to take the head off and have to start removing the valves, but I guess I will do what ever I have too.
#18
RE: Valve clearances/adjustment
I can only tell that my 7 smokes a little is through that hose, if i take the fill cap off, there is nothing. was your 1 having problems before you dived in?
you can get that measuring device at any local parts store (autozone, advance autoparts ect.)
you can get that measuring device at any local parts store (autozone, advance autoparts ect.)
#20
RE: Valve clearances/adjustment
ORIGINAL: Nobrakes
No timing light required for my little bike, but I can't say for yours - you've got quite a few more valves to deal with, but I doubt that would affect the procedure - just more valves to do. You do need to consider one more factor in addition to lining up the marks on the gears. Well, two more - there are marks for both the inlet timing and exhaust timing on both sets of cam gears. Be sure you line up the right marks for each cam. On my bike, the valves toward the front are the exhaust, while the valves toward the rear are inlet.
The second thing is the number of cam chain links between the timing marks counting from the right hand side of the exhaust cam in my photo, all the way over to the mark on the left side of the inlet cam. My shop manual says there should be 31 or 32 chain link pivots (can't remember off the top of my head).
So if your timing cam gear marks are lined up correctly and you have the right number of timing chain links between the marks, then you are golden.
ORIGINAL: Notstock
As far as the timing goes, I will check to se if mine have those lines like yours, is all I have to do is line them up and its done? No timing light?
As far as the timing goes, I will check to se if mine have those lines like yours, is all I have to do is line them up and its done? No timing light?
The second thing is the number of cam chain links between the timing marks counting from the right hand side of the exhaust cam in my photo, all the way over to the mark on the left side of the inlet cam. My shop manual says there should be 31 or 32 chain link pivots (can't remember off the top of my head).
So if your timing cam gear marks are lined up correctly and you have the right number of timing chain links between the marks, then you are golden.
Good advise during this whole thread nobrakes. Yes the manual will cover these details as well. Stubborn buckets can also be removed with a valve lapping suction tool. You know which one I am talking about. A stick with suction cups.