Many places inEurope as I understand have a step system in which you must meet certain criteria to get a particular bike, whether its rated by cc or hp. Their system works great in a culture that uses bikes for cheap transportation and a reduction in traffic congestion. However in the US, bikes are not primarily a cheap source of transportation, but an extension of personal style and a source of recreation (not to say Europeans don't go for rides just to relax,butthe primary uses of bikesare different) Therefore while a European audience is still interested in bikes with restrictions, a US audience would notbe as willing to even try the sport if they cannot buy the ride they want. Imposing government restrictions on bikes will reduce deaths only by lowering the number of people who have an interest in riding whether they would do so responsibly or not.

As a pilot I know that bothbikes and airplanes are inherently safe machines, but operating these machines bring about certain risks. It is the responsibility of the operator to recognize and reduce these risks so that we can operate them safely. It is also the resposibility of the operator to learn as much as possible about the machine to ensure that you are capable of safe operation. If there is any question that you can reduce the risks to acceptable levels, then you should consider a different bike.

 

Well stated Prom.

 

Heh, now this is making me look like a state oversight enthusiast, it's just that I'm beginning to wonder if the average intelligence of some people competes with that of a brick.... On the up note you are less likely to do as much harm to others riding a bike then, say, driving a semi truck.

 

Prom, as long as the "restrictions" are on the user's access to the bikes and not on the manufacturer to limit hp or other performance specs, I agree with you to a point. However, if this happens, the ratio of fatalities-to-licensed riders will not significantly change. In fact, it could result in a proportional increase in fatalities, because people with some measure of intellect would determine the hoops are not worth jumping through.
The 2nd paragraph is exactly the issue:The majority of people who become statistics defylogic and deny self-control. Those of us with(at least) some measure of self-control can identify when we're in over our heads. The same phenomenon occurs with socioeconomic issues like having 20 kids on welfare, or healthcare issues regarding prevention. It's always the people in the 2nd or 3rd standard deviation off the bell curve of "Responsible Humans" that ruin (read: cost$$$) things for the rest of us. The irony with riders, is that the statistics show an increased number of people who have the intelligence to know their behavior is risky (riding at high speed, no helmet, etc.) as well as what ^Rocket says aboutcagers who don't (apparently) see motorcyclists.
I stand by what I said above, about "stupid people will always find a way..." andit's arrogance for politicians to think we can legislate the world into a safe place (regardless of the topic: bikes, healthcare, whatever). Have you ever read the book The Bell Curve?Depressing, really. It looks at exactly these kinds of issues from about every possible angle. It's a dry, boring read, but hits the targetwith a laser, in my opinion.

 

Jeff, your argument about more restrictive legislation leading to more fatalities is bizzare. First, I think we both agree that people with some measure of intellect are less likely to push their skills and go beyond of what they can handle. Second, additional licensing will at least to some point weed out those who just shouldn't ride a zx 12 or a busa. For that reason alone this is worthwile effort. Third, noone is born with riding skills, and the time you spend working your way up through courses after which you can get on a sportsbike will give you a chance to accumulate some experience. You might ride a lot and responsibly, but some overly optimistic newbie who doesn't know how the bike performs at high speeds ? Thats just one, preventive measure; the other, punitive measures are for those who have the skills but lack brains. Those should be steep too. That's the way I see it.

I've read that book, BTW. In it's time caused a lot of controversy.

 

OK, I am going to weigh in here because I am one of the people described. I am in my late, late, late 40's that rode when I was younger. My buddy is also the same age. We both bought a bigger, newer bike than what we had 20 odd years ago. We both had a couple of minor "fears" with getting back in to the wind but, getting back in to the wind was our goal. We have looked after our kids and our wives and now it is time for us.

Getting back on to a bike is a little shaky at first. The wives were against the idea....at first. They both rode with us 20 years ago. Now, we have a hard time getting away by ourselves.

When we first got our new bikes, we spent some time at "no riders allowed" so that we could get used to the handling and power. We are well aware of the dangers. Then introduced the passengers and had to remind them of their responsabilities as well.

It has only been a couple of months now and things are better but we all know that we are not up to snuff yet.

It all boils down to common sense (that seems to lack in most of the north American public) and knowing your limitations. If there is any legislation that needs doing, it is in all car and motorcycle commercials on TV. They ALL promote power, speed and sex to get their message across. The dealers, for the most part, just want to sell and will sell anything to anyone that wants it. There is nothing wrong with that in theory, but I wonder if some of these guys can sleep at night selling an 1100cc street bike to someone that has never ridden before.

If stupidity were illegal, North America would not be big enough to build all the jails.

 

in the military it is the opposite...it's the 18-25 year old killing themselves...alot of it is the peer pressure from their (they think think they are) more experienced friends...get the biggest bang for your buck...you ain't **** unless you get a liter bike...they come back from the desert with a fist full of cash...use a credit card to put a down deposit and fly out the door with absolutely no idea what they just got themselves into...I'm not saying this about every one that comes back from the desert...I see it all the time...I'm a Sportbike Instructor for the Air Force and I see this scenario all the time...we had one kid come in weighing in at a 100 pounds with his helmet on being dragged around the course by his ZX-10...he could barely hold it up while on his tip toes...first bike...back from the sand box..."friends" talked him into it...I pulled him off to the side and told him to sell it before it kills him... ...I explained to him that a smaller bike would fit him better and he would enjoy riding a hell of a lot more... ...as more experienced riders we need to mentor (yeah military words) the younger and older new riders...put aside what we would ride and think about some one that has no clue as to what throttle control is and no idea what that speeding bullet they just bought can do......I always listen up when someone is looking to get that first bike...I'll go with them to the stealerships just to make sure they aren't being pressured into a bad purchase...show them them the safety gear: helmets, jackets, gloves and boots...take them on rides and keep it to a slower pace so they don't ride above their skill level trying to keep up...preach the MSF courses... ...should bike companies keep making faster and more nimble bikes??? HELL YEAH!!! Should more be done to ensure proper training before they purchase that bike??? HELL YEAH!!! European countries go by age to CC's allowed...they are some of the best riders that I hae seen...by the time they get a liter bikes they have quite a few years under their belts... ...that's my 2cents...

 

I've ridden for yrs and am just as happy cruizen around on my 250 as I would on an 1100,would I like more power ?yes. but do I need it ?no. I am looking into a second bike for long rides but don't need the biggest bike out there, an 800 to 900cc cruiser is more than enough.

 

 

hmm, not sure on what that was maverickaus. A brain fart?